Problems with Strip Light and low supply

[westie101]

I was saying that, as far as I was aware (perhaps incorrectly, in view of what stillp now tells me), there was no guarantee that a particular equipment would function satisfactorily if the supply were at the minimum permitted level (so that DNO 'need take no action') and there was also a substantial (perhaps 'maximum permitted') VD within the installation.

It's always seemed logical to me as that situation can arise.

 

[JohnW2]

I was saying that, as far as I was aware (perhaps incorrectly, in view of what stillp now tells me), there was no guarantee that a particular equipment would function satisfactorily if the supply were at the minimum permitted level (so that DNO 'need take no action') and there was also a substantial (perhaps 'maximum permitted') VD within the installation.

It's always seemed logical to me as that situation can arise.

The situation obviously can theoretically arise, but I didn't think that equipment was necessarily designed to be able to cope with it. However, what stillp says may change that - at least for the UK (I don't know about VD recommendations/rules/guidelines in other countries).

Kind Regards, John

 

[westie101]

So

The letters ‘CE’ appear on many products that are traded on the single market in the European Economic Area (EEA).

The CE marking is required for many products. It:

shows that the manufacturer has checked that these products meet EU safety, health or environmental requirements
is an indicator of a product’s compliance with EU legislation
allows the free movement of products within the European market

If an item of equipment is CE marked it MUST operate throughout the whole of the Economic area, so it MUST operate at the lowest voltage that can be found in that area.
I doubt there are any exceptions e.g. CE marked but will not operate in (say) Spain.

If as stated that is 230V -15% then that is the lowest voltage that will be found under normal conditions (minimum declared voltage plus any volt drop on an installation) throughout the common market
Which aligns with what is permitted in the UK in terms of the actual voltage. It does however suggest that permissible voltage drops on installations where the initial declared voltage was 220V are less in percentage terms than in the UK

 

[JohnW2]

...The CE marking is required for many products. It: ... allows the free movement of products within the European market

If an item of equipment is CE marked it MUST operate throughout the whole of the Economic area, so it MUST operate at the lowest voltage that can be found in that area.

That certainly sounds as if it is the case.

If as stated that is 230V -15% then that is the lowest voltage that will be found under normal conditions (minimum declared voltage plus any volt drop on an installation) throughout the common market.

That is indeed the implication.

Which aligns with what is permitted in the UK in terms of the actual voltage. It does however suggest that permissible voltage drops on installations where the initial declared voltage was 220V are less in percentage terms than in the UK

Yes, that sounds logical - whether it is true in terms of relevant national regulations/guidelines, I don't know.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

If an item of equipment is CE marked it MUST operate throughout the whole of the Economic area, so it MUST operate at the lowest voltage that can be found in that area.

Most standards for equipment require correct operation between +10% and -15% of nominal supply voltage.

I've just been looking around my home. I seem to have a lot of CE-marked things which are also marked "220V-240V". In view of the above, what does that mean?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If an item of equipment is CE marked it MUST operate throughout the whole of the Economic area, so it MUST operate at the lowest voltage that can be found in that area.

And the highest, which is a problem with incandescent lamps.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I've just been looking around my home. I seem to have a lot of CE-marked things which are also marked "220V-240V". In view of the above, what does that mean?

U0?

 

[JohnW2]

I've just been looking around my home. I seem to have a lot of CE-marked things which are also marked "220V-240V". In view of the above, what does that mean?

U0?

Possibly - but that would probably be pretty confusing or worrying for Joe Public, particularly ones like me who know that their supply voltage is virtually always >240V.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

If an item of equipment is CE marked it MUST operate throughout the whole of the Economic area, so it MUST operate at the lowest voltage that can be found in that area.

And the highest, which is a problem with incandescent lamps.

Indeed - and one also wonders what "MUST operate" means in that context. An incandescent would 'operate', at least for a while, at 253V, but the life expectancy would be considerably (possibly 'dramatically') less at 253V than at 230V.

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

If an item of equipment is CE marked it MUST operate throughout the whole of the Economic area, so it MUST operate at the lowest voltage that can be found in that area.

Most standards for equipment require correct operation between +10% and -15% of nominal supply voltage.

I've just been looking around my home. I seem to have a lot of CE-marked things which are also marked "220V-240V". In view of the above, what does that mean?

Kind Regards, John

Depends what those "things" are. For many products that would mean that they must function (but not necessarily to full specification) at 220V - 15% and 240V + 10%.

 

[JohnW2]

I've just been looking around my home. I seem to have a lot of CE-marked things which are also marked "220V-240V". In view of the above, what does that mean?

Depends what those "things" are. For many products that would mean that they must function (but not necessarily to full specification) at 220V - 15% and 240V + 10%.

Thanks. It was quite a mixed bag of 'things'. I did consider that possible interpretation, but it seemed to be an extremely wide range (187V - 264V), which I would have thought could be quite challenging for some types of product - and, of course, a range of supply voltages which would not actually be 'permitted' in most/all EU member states.

What about the issue mentioned by BAS and myself about products (like incandescent lamps) which (without unrealistically expensive additional design complication) inevitably (e.g. due to the laws of physics) have a potentially dramatically reduced life when supplied with, say, 253V as when supplied with 230V, let alone as compared with 216.2V? Does 'functioning with a dramatically reduced life" qualify as 'functioning?

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

The function of an incandescent lamp is to convert electrical energy into visible light, not to continue to do so for some period of time.

 

[JohnW2]

The function of an incandescent lamp is to convert electrical energy into visible light, not to continue to do so for some period of time.

I see - so I guess it would 'function' with 500V or 1000V, then (albeit extremely briefly!)

Seriously, though, there surely must be some consideration on the effect of the voltage on the product. It would be a strange (I could use other words!) situation if a manufacturer were able to claim that their product could 'function' at a particular voltage if its life under such conditions was so short that, in the eyes of the law, the product was not considered 'fit for purpose', wouldn't it?

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

Do you know of any lamp manufacturers who make such a claim?

 

[JohnW2]

Do you know of any lamp manufacturers who make such a claim?

I seem to be being told that if the product is CE marked (do lamps get CE marks?) then there is effectively a requirement (hence essentially the same as a claim) that it will 'function' at the maximum permitted supply voltage, probably usually 253V.

It seems to be generally said that incandescent lamp life is inversely proportional to the 12th power of the applied voltage. Hence the life at 230V would be about 3.1 times longer than the life at 253V. Hence a lamp which had an expected life of, say, 1000 hours at 230V would have an expected life of around 323 hours at 253V. Whether the law would regard that as 'fit for purpose', I don't know.

Kind Regards, John