Consumer units and not a registered competent person

[richard7761]

I understand that under the regulations for electrical safety dwellings, a consumer unit can be wired up by an installer who is not a registered competent person.

In these circumstances the installer has the option to notify a registered third party certifier, who should complete an electrical installation condition report.

That means I, not being a registered competent person, can wire up my consumer unit.

 

[ericmark]

I have no idea of your ability so don't know if you have the skill but assuming you have the skill then yes you can replace a consumer unit.

In Wales you would need to inform the LABC and pay a fee around £250 this will vary as to if they accept your qualifications to allow you to test and inspect or if third part inspection is required.

You will clearly have to go by the rules so the DNO will need to isolate and reconnect after so likely you will be without power for a couple of days. Plus of course their fees as well.

So the big question why would anyone want to DIY a consumer unit change when it will cost more than getting some one to do the job for you?

In England I think same as Wales not sure on Scotland and Ulster. You really do need to set location.

 

[Chri5]

Electrician doing a cu change over and full test circa £400

3rd party inspecting, testing and correcting errors £350


So you doing it saves £50 and isn't 100% guaranteed to not have errors, faults and fails.

 

[JohnW2]

I understand that under the regulations for electrical safety dwellings, a consumer unit can be wired up by an installer who is not a registered competent person.

Anyone sufficiently competent (regardless of any qualifications, training, 'registrations' or scheme memberships) can undertake any electrical work, provided only that if the work is notifiable (which replacing a CU is) and they are not an electrician who belongs to a self-certifying scheme, that the work be notified (and f paid) to LABC prior to commencement of the work.

In these circumstances the installer has the option to notify a registered third party certifier, who should complete an electrical installation condition report.

The new version of "Approved Document P" which appeared in April 2013 introduced the concept of 'third party certification'- but no such scheme (for 'third party certifiers) has yet appeared - and probably never will. Even if that had got off the ground, there was a requirement for the 'third party certifier' to be involved before the work started/

That means I, not being a registered competent person, can wire up my consumer unit.

See above.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I understand that under the regulations for electrical safety dwellings, a consumer unit can be wired up by an installer who is not a registered competent person.

Only if the person doing it is competent enough to do it safely.

And you'd probably be surprised about how much there is to know.

In these circumstances the installer has the option to notify a registered third party certifier, who should complete an electrical installation condition report.

To everyone's knowledge, although this is an option on paper, in practice there simply are no registered 3rd-party certifiers. So the options are:

1) Use a registered electrician to do it all

2) Apply for Building Regulations approval in advance, and agree with Building Control how you will ensure that your work complied with Part P.

That means I, not being a registered competent person, can wire up my consumer unit.

Only if you are competent enough to do it safely.

Do you know all there is to know about it?

 

[ericmark]

In the main electricians don't deal direct with LABC they are scheme members but I did have to do it with my mothers wet room.

It seemed they would let me do it but wanted me to pay a third party to do the inspection and tested which they would select. I did not want to do this I was prepared for them to check my work but not a third party and for me to inspect and test I had to satisfy them I had the skill.

It would seem main reason is they did not have the skill, and this varies council to council. In Wales the councils fee is fixed but the contractors fee is not and again varies. And at the end of the job you get a completion certificate not an installation certificate.

When one reads the rules it is clear that's all you can get. Only the person/s doing the work can sign the installation certificate i.e. you. So best you can do is get an electrical installation condition report and copy the results onto the installation certificate and sign it yourself.

And all this may not save you one penny in fact it could cost you more.

The LABC has a big problem. If they allow you to do any electrical work they are responsible for site safety. There is only one way they can do that with a consumer unit change.
1) The DNO has to isolate the supply.
2) You do the work.
3) The appointed inspector has to test the work and issue an EICR.
4) The DNO has to reconnect the supply.
The number 3) is a real problem as you have no power to test with so in real terms this is split into two half before DNO reconnects and half after and the power can't be turned on until tests are complete.

In real terms this is a 5 day job. If you get a scheme member it should also be a 3 day job but normally they will remove the DNO fuse and replace it without telling the DNO and then you ring up the DNO and tell them you found your seal is broken after an electrician had renewed a consumer unit there are a few tuts and they replace it.

It is just not worth the hassle to DIY. Some times the DNO insist the electrician is on site before they reconnect. I have gone to my sons jobs and waited 4 hours for DNO to turn up and not done a thing just had to be on site. So you can end up paying 4 hours time to an electrician just to click his fingers and sup tea.

 

[westie101]

Though in theory the DNO could just fit an isolator at step 1 an not have a need to return.

In actual fact we as a DNO do not do this work anyway, it is now left to the supplier to remove/replace main fuses and possibly fit an isolator

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Wouldn't a photo of the guys cutout be useful to determine for sure that the supplier would be able to fiddle with it?

 

[DaftPunk]

I wasn't advising anything. I was just telling the op how things are normally done by electricians.

Please edit my post if you are unhappy with some of it's content rather than removing it entirely.

I'm not registered and do CU swaps / moves etc for people all the time. Part P is the most unpoliced and unknown regulation there is. As long as the job is done right there will never be any comeback on the installer. I'd much rather have the annual registration costs in my pocket than the pocket of the scam sorry scheme providers.

I've also cut thousands of meter / cutout seals. As long as no one is knicking electric the DNO / MOP do not even blink an eye and just reseal everything on their next routine visit to the property.

I'm sure I'll be flamed on here for saying this but that's how it works in the real world.

 

[JohnW2]

I'm sure I'll be flamed on here for saying this but that's how it works in the real world.

You are, in some senses, a brave an honest person to say these things. I'm sure that many/most of us do know what goes on in the real world, but perhaps some things are best not actually said, particularly in a public 'DIY' forum. Although obviously not applicable to yourself, I'm also sure that there are things that some self-certifying electricians do in the real world (by virtue of being able to 'self-certify') that they would not want to talk about here.

Kind Regards, John

 

[westie101]

1) The DNO has to isolate the supply.
2) You do the work.
3) The appointed inspector has to test the work and issue an EICR.
4) The DNO has to reconnect the supply.
The number 3) is a real problem as you have no power to test with so in real terms this is split into two half before DNO reconnects and half after and the power can't be turned on until tests are complete.

a long winded way of doing it I would have thought.
Going back 40+ years and I would suggest to still apply

Fit new CU and arrange a temporary feed via blocks from the existing CU using a high rated fuse way.
Transfer circuits one by one to new CU.
Get work tested
Get supplier to transfer tails.

Or at stage 1 get supplier to connect to isolator provided by them or yourself

 

[richard7761]

From a DIY point of view, it would help if installations were fitted with a non tamperable isolator, so power could be cut off to the consumer unit.

I was looking at Wylex REC2S.

What is the proper procedure for installing an isolator between the meter and the CU?

I presume that the supply has always to be isolated (by taking out the 80/100A main fuse).

What costs might be involved in having an isolator fitted? Thanks.

 

[securespark]

Well, I fitted my own years ago.

I asked Norweb (now ENWL) to come and pull the fuse while I connected the outgoing tails to the CU and they connected the incoming tails to the meter.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I wasn't advising anything. I was just telling the op how things are normally done by electricians.

Please don't treat us as if we are as stupid as you.

I'm not registered and do CU swaps / moves etc for people all the time.

Then you are a criminal.

What do you call the sort of person who deliberately makes criminal practices part of his business processes?

Cowboy, charlatan would seem appropriate.

And given that you are leaving your clients with a potential problem which could affect the future sale of their house, that is so far removed from your duty of care and any decent standards of professional ethics that scumbag is also apt.

Part P is the most unpoliced and unknown regulation there is.

SO WHAT?

As long as the job is done right there will never be any comeback on the installer. I'd much rather have the annual registration costs in my pocket than the pocket of the scam sorry scheme providers.

And I'd much rather see you prosecuted, fined, imprisoned, and financially ruined by a lawsuit.

I've also cut thousands of meter / cutout seals.

That's also criminal, and dangerous.

I'm sure I'll be flamed on here for saying this but that's how it works in the real world.

The world is full of irresponsible, callous ****s like you.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You are, in some senses, a brave an honest person to say these things

"Honest"?

Criminal behaviour is a routine part of his business activities. "Honest" is not a label which can be applied to him.