How do I paint hallway ceiling with no marks using matt white?

[SproutsDad]

My hallway ceiling was washed, filled, sanded and sealed with a mist coat and in places of high repair a 50/50 pva to seal it, prior to 3 coats of Wickes white matt - I'm not sure if it was standard matt or vinyl matt?

Despite all this solid white paint put on with a short hair roller for minimum 'stippled' effect and a hoped for smooth and matt finish, I have just that problem. Close up the surface is very uneven, quite 'grainy'. The light also catches a few patches that do not fully cover, no matter how many coats are put on.

I am thinking of sanding it back with fine paper (by hand) and building up the body of paint layers again.
> But how do I proceed?
> After sanding, do I seal it so that the new coats build up a blocking coat and what roller?
> Do I use a short haired roller for a smooth finish? I would assume so.

Any help much appreciated

 

[darkan9el]

Short pile rollers can leave tracks, not put enough paint on to keep it wet i.e. it dries out to fast leaving banding where you go over the last part you rollered and if the ceiling isn't particularly even will miss the low parts. Personally I always use medium to long pile rollers as I've never had an issue with a bit of texture. If I wanted a non textured smooth ceiling I'd paint it with a wallop brush, "eee thems were't days"

Different textures on a ceiling can flash, so, if you have a crack and fill it and sand it, you effectively make it smoother than the surrounding surfaces. having these different textures will reflect light differently, so you have to even out the texture.

The paint you use can also make a big difference, I've never tried wickes paint so I can't comment on that but I like Crown and Macphersons, not a fan of dulux too gloopy for my taste, but crown paint goes on nicely with a medium sheepskin roller.

Forget about cheapo synthetic crap rollers they are false economy

 

[SproutsDad]

Thanks. A hallway is a showpiece area, I wouldn't be bothering in the same way if this was with a spare bedroom...

and if the ceiling isn't particularly even will miss the low parts.

That seems to be a big part of this, maybe in going for a 'smooth' finish I have missed the fact that a short haired roller is quite rigid and not flexible, it misses the low spots. You are right in all that you say about the banding and drying out.
>> How much % should I thin the paint by? Cheap paints just go more translucent and don't block out and are difficult to cover repair work, even if not diluted. Do good paints give the same blocking out even when thinned for ease of working?
The mass of natural light in the hallway shows every blemish. Do I go up and down with the roller or vary it in other directions?
Thanks again for a thorough answer. Appreciated though all responses are, sometimes the one-liners don't fully address the question. All the best.

 

[JohnD]

Putting a water-soluble glue on a surface that you hope one day to paint, is a mistake.

 

[joe-90]

The grainy finish is known as roller stipple caused by too thick paint. Best way forward is to get some Crown from B&Q (dead cheap). Thin it 20% and roller on a couple of quick coats.

 

[geraldthehamster]

The PVA won't help the adhesion of the paint. You should never PVA a surface that you are going to paint.

Cheers
Richard

 

[SproutsDad]

The PVA won't help the adhesion of the paint. You should never PVA a surface that you are going to paint.

You should never PVA a surface that you are going to paint.

JohnD & gerald - Thanks for the tip, and sorry I mentioned PVA, it was very minor in this case, not the whole ceiling! I put some on in a small area of deep plaster patching, about 3" square in total which is now buried under about three layers of matt white. From scratch the whole bare ceiling had a couple of thin mist coats before then rollering on the Wickes trade matt.
> Would the PVA have had a 'bleed thro' effect then?
> An issue I do sometimes suffer from on new or patched plaster areas is difficulty in 'blocking out' with colour but just in certain areas where the paint sometimes shows as translucent. It is then all too easy to overload in those areas just to cover it. Sometimes I have abandoned it and washed off to start again. I think the failing has been in not thoroughly washing down before starting in the first place? It appears as if sanding dust is still present when the paint goes on, or is it grease? I think not grease on bare walls.
Does any of this make sense or is that dilemma down to something else?

 

[SproutsDad]

The grainy finish is known as roller stipple caused by too thick paint. Best way forward is to get some Crown from B&Q (dead cheap). Thin it 20% and roller on a couple of quick coats.

Joe-90, thanks - me again.

roller stipple caused by too thick paint.

.... Exactly, I realise that now, too thick paint.

Q1> Is the Crown normal matt, or vinyl matt? For ceilings I would assume non-vinyl?
Q2> Should I, as mentioned earlier, give the whole ceiling a fine sand over to reduce the roller stipple? It seems to be that which the light catches and shows up the roller marks and any undulations.
Q3> What grade of roller - short/medium/long?
Q4> What is a good and suitable filler for feather edge fine filling on a ceiling, also sandable?
In small areas I have used the same fine surface filler that is also used on wood, easily sanded, not those rubbery non-sand ones.

Out of interest - Two fillers that I avoid are Pollyfilla itself - goes rock hard and if forgotten is very difficult to sand, also Polycell fine surface, the one that isn't meant to be sanded, coz you can't!

Thanks again

 

[SproutsDad]

darkan9el, thanks ...

Different textures on a ceiling can flash, so, if you have a crack and fill it and sand it, you effectively make it smoother than the surrounding surfaces. having these different textures will reflect light differently, so you have to even out the texture.

Q> How do I 'even out the texture'? Or is that just a knack?
I agree, I can see the roller behaving differently on those surfaces, and no matter how many coast I put on, it will always seem to show through.
Q> How do I remove or minimise that?

After doing a local repair/ crack filling and feathering it out; I have tried painting over just that area first. I then give that a light sand. However that sanding can remove most of the new paint anyway. Then I roller over the lot, however the repair and local paint build up can often show through no matter how many coats are applied.
Q> Any suggestions?

Note:- I do car bodywork repairs and find that easier than getting a good even finish on a ceiling like this!

Thanks