Removal of 2 walls.

[Screech20]

Hey guys,

Basically I would like to remove 2 walls, and replace with 1, doing away with 1 room making the 2 next to it bigger.
It's a 1930's semi detached bungalow, with timber suspended floors.

pictures will hopefully help here....


Wall 1. The red circle is where I've knocked a bit of ceiling out against the wall to get the true location.
Blue line is where the wall runs.

As you can see, the ceiling joists have a join on top of this wall.
No part of the roof sits on here.
This wall comes up from the ground under the floor (not built off the timber floor)

Wall no2:


Same again, red circle is where I've knocked a bit of ceiling out and blue line is the wall location.

Nothing sits on the wall apart from the joists running straight through.

This wall is built off of the timber floor.

This is wall no1, just about see it behind the door, no other way to get a photo!


This is wall no2:



I do understand that it takes a bit more than a few pictures on the Internet to get advise on how to do this, BUT, as this is the first time for us I need to know where exactly to start and who to call.
For example, the council, Architect etc?

It's something I would like to do ourselves with the help from others where needed.

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers

 

[Newboy]

Structural engineer

 

[ree]

Any competent builder could do this job - its a perfectly ordinary knock-thro.

OP,

you have a "utility room" room between the kitchen & the bathroom - & you want to remove the walls that separates this utility room from the bathroom and the kitchen? Have i got that right?

 

[Screech20]

We would like to do it ourselves, but it's just knowing if we need extra support, steels etc.

It's a tiny box room, seriously useless as it is. We want to make both the bathroom and kitchen bigger.

Cheers

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Your first wall appears to be supporting the ceiling joists so you'll need a lintel there, if it is a brick wall you may need to leave a nib in place (to buttress the outside walls). Your second wall appears to be supporting not a lot (though check the joist size against the span to make sure they're big enough to not require support mid span.

Someone already said straightforward job, shouldn't cost a lot either. Building Control will be involved (structural element) on the first one for certain- depending on your local council you could do worse than phoning them, they might even drop by and have a look and they will know local builders who will do the job properly (or if you want to do it yourself they'll advise on what size lintel and how big a nib you need to leave). It is completely DIY doable- acro props and spreaders each side of the wall to support the ceiling, knock wall down, insert lintel, pack up and level, get BCO to inspect and approve, board over and decorate. It only gets really messy if you use a Stihl saw to form the nibs (lots of dust everywhere but quick), do the bricks old school with a hammer and bolster and its not nearly as dusty.

One trap for you- resist the temptation to chuck the old brickwork under the floor unless there's a massive space between timbers and ground level (like 500mm or so clear under the floor joists).

 

[cAtLeYx]

A structural engineer is definitely required here. Not only to confirm what is or is not load bearing but to also provide beam dimension and calculations for building regulation sign off. Whilst the labour element of removing the wall could be done by yourself, I would advise on using a competent building to install temporary propping first You could remove wall, and building to construct new pockets / nibs and install steel beam/s.

 

[ree]

No, you dont need a structural engineer.

"load bearing" - you are looking at pics in the loft of a bungalow?

I dont know who "building regulation" is but no BCO in my limited experience would want a SE's involvement.

 

[cAtLeYx]

Ree, I fail to see your argument here. The ceiling joists are clearly lapped jointed over the wall in question, suggesting its load bearing. If the wall is to be remove a steel (or suitable equivalent) will need to be installed to support the lapped joists. As you can't simply guess at what would be suitable, calculations are required. To prove this a structural engineer IS REQUIRED. In the event of the property being sold the new vendor would also need to see the signed off Building Regulations...

 

[ree]

Its not an argument - i'm telling you that you are talking pretentious, semi-literate rubbish. You've so far demonstrated in all of your posts that you attempt to speak with a knowledge and authority that you dont possess

Not only in this thread but in the thread from yesterday where you babble on about sucking water through a straw as an example of something you've probably googled but dont understand.

Some time you might give dangerous rubbish posing as experienced advice.

 

[cAtLeYx]

Ree - Thanks for your reply - but you have still not responded to why a S/E is not required and how the existing ceiling joists will be supported once the wall below is removed. I do not need to search google for my opinions, I have a degree in construction and work as a senior construction manager for a large national contractor.. ! Please enlighten me with your reasons why you disagree with my posts. happy to debate any of my previous threads further.

 

[Screech20]

Thanks for the input, though I didn't want to start an argument.
I understand it will need building control
Sign off, and a SE. Which one should I contact first?

I see what you mean about leaving a nib, not something I'd thought about and unfortunately not something I've got room for, is there a way around that?

I've been thinking of ideas, please bear with me, this might be completely out of the question...

Let's say SE/BCO says wall no2 can just come down with no additional support as it's not load bearing...
Wall no1 comes down, without a nib, could the nib be formed into the new wall, which will be around 700mm back?

Then, as for the lapped joists, could the long ones be cut back to sit on the new wall and the now short ones be replaced to sit on the new wall?

This would make the new wall be load bearing, could it still be a stud wall?

Cheers.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

The walls are taking load from the loft joists, so some kind of support to the joists will be required once the walls are removed. The loads are minimal, so depending on spans a double or triple joist would probably do the job. That would be cheaper, but might leave you with a slightly larger downstand. If you desire a small downstand, go with the more expensive option of steel.

You don't necessarily require a structural engineer for this job - there are building control guidance notes for trimmers on the internet which you could use to size a timber section. This will depend on your ability to work out the loads to the new supporting members. If you aren't confident doing that an SE will probably charge you around £100 to design the member for you.

You shouldn't need nibs, BS8103 states that for low rise buildings walls can be up to nine metres long without any buttresses. You've just got to convince your BCO of this fact.

Then, as for the lapped joists, could the long ones be cut back to sit on the new wall and the now short ones be replaced to sit on the new wall?

This would make the new wall be load bearing, could it still be a stud wall?

You could do this - and yes, you would be able to support the new joists off a stud wall. However, despite the small loads, you would have to prove to BC that the bearing capacity under the new wall is sufficient. Probably OK if onto a ground bearing slab, if onto a timber floor some more calcs would be required.

 

[cAtLeYx]

A structural engineer will need to provide a design along with calculations to enable you to satisfy your obligations in accordance with Building Regulations (A1.) Once you have approval you can proceed after given the required notice of intension. The BCO will review the works and if satisfied issue you a completion certificate. In the event that you sale your property in the future the vendors surveyor will ask for proof that the works have been carried out in accordance with Building Regulations. Your simply provide a copy of your completion certificate.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

A structural engineer will need to provide a design along with calculations to enable you to satisfy your obligations in accordance with Building Regulations (A1.)

No, you simply have to be able to prove (or satisfy Building Control) that what is installed is fit for purpose. Building Control will not always ask for calculations if their experience gives them confidence that the installation is sound. If they require proof their guidance notes and a few calcs to determine loads may be all they need.

OP, give your local BC a call. They may well tell you over the phone what they require if you clearly describe your plans.

 

[cAtLeYx]

No, you simply have to be able to prove (or satisfy Building Control) that what is installed is fit for purpose.

How would you prove its fit for purpose.

Building Control will not always ask for calculations if their experience gives them confidence that the installation is sound.

How would they know that the installation is sound, what qualifications do they have to sign off a structural element?

If they require proof their guidance notes and a few calcs to determine loads may be all they need.

Does the BCO have PI Insurance then to cover his "a few cals".