230V/240V Question

[ban-all-sheds]

Since 230V -10%/+6% and 230V -6%/+10% are both subsets of 230V ±10% (which is apparently their initial ultimate 'aim'), why on earth do all countries not now describe their supplies as 230V ±10% ?? That would be 'harmonisation', at least in one sense.

AIUI that was to have been, maybe still is to be, the ultimate aim.

You would have to ask CENELEC why it has not yet happened.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Surely the point is that there could theoretically be a product/appliance/whatever within one of the countries, made to comply with the voltage range in that country, which might theoretically be damaged or non-operational if the country's supply range was increased in practice, so it would not be fair to suddenly increase the stated range until such products were deemed to have had time to change or disappear.

Or what about creating a single market within which appliances would work everywhere, even if in-practice supply voltages changed?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Of course, that wouldn't satisfy those who seem to think that merely for the sake of "harmoniuzation" if Europe is operating to 230V +/-10% then the U.K. should too, even though 230V +/-6% falls entirely within that wider range and even though the 6% tolerance would maintain the U.K.'s better regulation.

OTOH, the current situation does have the side benefit of annoying people who don't like there to be regulations, and especially don't like them to change.

 

[PBC_1966]

Why should one country be forced to lower its standards just so it can, on paper, claim to have the same standard as a couple of dozen other countries, especially when that country's better standard already entirely satisfies the lower standard of the others?

 

[stillp]

Why should one country be forced to lower its standards just so it can, on paper, claim to have the same standard as a couple of dozen other countries, especially when that country's better standard already entirely satisfies the lower standard of the others?

What makes you think that has happened?

 

[stillp]

Since 230V -10%/+6% and 230V -6%/+10% are both subsets of 230V ±10% (which is apparently their initial ultimate 'aim'), why on earth do all countries not now describe their supplies as 230V ±10% ?? That would be 'harmonisation', at least in one sense.

AIUI that was to have been, maybe still is to be, the ultimate aim.

You would have to ask CENELEC why it has not yet happened.

Within the CENELEC countries, AFAIK it has happened. There are however many countries outside CENELEC (such as the USA) that have not implemented the requirements of the IEC standard on which the CENELEC one is based.

 

[PBC_1966]

What makes you think that has happened?

How can it be anything else if the eventual aim is to allow the supply to vary by +/-10% when formerly it was allowed to vary by only +/-6%?

 

[JohnW2]

Why should one country be forced to lower its standards just so it can, on paper, claim to have the same standard as a couple of dozen other countries, especially when that country's better standard already entirely satisfies the lower standard of the others?

What makes you think that has happened?

Presumably he means that 240V ±6% was appreciably 'tighter' than the 230V ±10% that we are apparently now 'striving for'. Whether or not UK suppliers do/will/would 'take advantage' of that opportunity to supply a wider range of voltages is, of course, not known.

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

No, I meant that the UK has not been 'forced' to accept anything.

 

[JohnW2]

No, I meant that the UK has not been 'forced' to accept anything.

Oh, I see. Yes, of course, I presume the UK could not be 'forced' to play along with the harmonisation. However, it seems that (whether or not 'we' 'take advantage' of the fact) 'we' have agreed to supply voltage limits which are less demanding than those to which we used to work in the UK.

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

Yes, we have agreed that the CENELEC standard includes limits that are less stringent than we have used in the past, and continue to require in UK law. Other countries within CENELEC were not so successful.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes, we have agreed that the CENELEC standard includes limits that are less stringent than we have used in the past, and continue to require in UK law.

What limits do "UK law" impose?

Kind Regards, John

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

A slightly frivolous point I could make is that I have had to travel to China and USA a fair bit recently and take a shed load of electronics with me as part of the job. Apart from the different plug shapes, *nothing* I have taken has had the slightest difficulty working on the local voltage without any pre-setting whatsoever. I suspect that world voltages are becoming more of a default concept. Obviously a biased view but I found it interesting to observe.

 

[stillp]

Yes, we have agreed that the CENELEC standard includes limits that are less stringent than we have used in the past, and continue to require in UK law.

What limits do "UK law" impose?

Kind Regards, John

(3) For the purposes of this regulation, unless otherwise agreed in writing by those persons specified in paragraph (2), the permitted variations are—

(a)a variation not exceeding 1 per cent above or below the declared frequency;

(b)in the case of a low voltage supply, a variation not exceeding 10 per cent above or 6 per cent below the declared voltage at the declared frequency;

(c)in the case of a high voltage supply operating at a voltage below 132,000 volts, a variation not exceeding 6 per cent above or below the declared voltage at the declared frequency; and

(d)in the case of a high voltage supply operating at a voltage of 132,000 volts or above, a variation not exceeding 10 per cent above or below the declared voltage at the declared frequency.

 

[PBC_1966]

Apart from the different plug shapes, *nothing* I have taken has had the slightest difficulty working on the local voltage without any pre-setting whatsoever.

A lot of the latest electronics (laptop and mobile-phone chargers, for example) come with switched-mode power supplies which will accept a wide range of supply voltages by nature of their design, often over a range of about 90 to 270V, so they'll generally have no problems whatsoever on anything from the (nominal ) 100V supplies in places like Japan up the 250V in some parts of Africa and, I believe, India.