I do agree, hence the inverted commas.
lighting circuit wiring pedantry!!
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Sorry.
For the record , I am a heating engineer who works on electrics daily (legally , minor works !),
My small ground floor extension that I built needs signing off, the one thing I can't do !! , and new lighting needs rcd , hence the new rcbo. 2 of the existing lights on ground floor have been changed as part of job , so he probably rightfully argues that these need rcd too , but as I have said , he reluctant to put all of floor on one rcbo , due to there being 2 wires at CU !!
My small ground floor extension that I built needs signing off, the one thing I can't do !! , and new lighting needs rcd , hence the new rcbo. 2 of the existing lights on ground floor have been changed as part of job , so he probably rightfully argues that these need rcd too , but as I have said , he reluctant to put all of floor on one rcbo , due to there being 2 wires at CU !!
S'quite alright, I should have been clearer
Well than - that's simple.
Tell him that it is not at all. And that that also describes how much you are going to pay him for his incompetent service so far, and how likely he is to win a court case where his ignorance will be laid bare.
And have you been, or is that accusation just one more manifestation of his idiocy?
Why are you?
You didn't ask him to do those things - tell him that inventing work and asking you to pay is a criminal offence.
because he is a good friend!!! , he initially wasn't keen on signing off my work, understandably , anyone professional does that with great caution..
So we asked another sparks, he would only do it if he replaced our 10 year old MK split board with a new metal full RCD job. for the best part of £500, about £10 a wire!!!!!
I know fully well that this is not necessary , and rcd protection to our new lights is the only requirement. so pleaded with my friend to do the honours..
Incidentally can someone confirm that when wiring an extension, one works to the regs on the START date of the project???, as when we did our other loft extension, 5 years ago, i think that it was still ok to have lights with no RCD protection? we are signing both jobs off now , and to the best of my knowledge, we only need rcd protection on the new or modified circuits??
and are any of you part P registered??
Thanks for the help and support!! It really is a hard life telling people how to do their jobs, believe me!!!
So we asked another sparks, he would only do it if he replaced our 10 year old MK split board with a new metal full RCD job. for the best part of £500, about £10 a wire!!!!!
I know fully well that this is not necessary , and rcd protection to our new lights is the only requirement. so pleaded with my friend to do the honours..
Incidentally can someone confirm that when wiring an extension, one works to the regs on the START date of the project???, as when we did our other loft extension, 5 years ago, i think that it was still ok to have lights with no RCD protection? we are signing both jobs off now , and to the best of my knowledge, we only need rcd protection on the new or modified circuits??
and are any of you part P registered??
Thanks for the help and support!! It really is a hard life telling people how to do their jobs, believe me!!!
So is it the case that you have done notifiable electrical work, some of which was associated with notifiable building work, and now you have problems with the electrician who has agreed to say that he did the work?
When you applied for Building Regulations approval what did you tell Building Control about who would be doing the electrical work?
When you applied for Building Regulations approval what did you tell Building Control about who would be doing the electrical work?
Yes, I do understand that he is doing us a favour by signing off our work, but i believe the BS form he is completing is , I believe, a test?, and doesn't have any boxes asking who did the work??
No one asked me who's going to be doing the work when i started, he has been round as a friend as the work has been done, and he knows where all the wires run, so I don't think its so wrong what we are doing, I guess i just pushed him too far when i questioned the 2 wires into a breaker issue!! I realise after questioning a few, that all sparks are taught this, but none of them know why, other than "good practice"!!!, but the cleverer ones realise that its not something thats in the regs, just the recommended way, and when your talking about 1 , 1.5mm2 extra 'spur' to 0.25a of lighting (4 led bulbs), of course you can have 2 wires to the breaker!!!, or at the worst put a JB adjacent to CU !!!
Interestingly , I also installed a wood burning stove and thermal store, complete with new twin wall chimney , I couldnt find a HEATAS engineer to sign it off, for love nor money!! I told building control the truth of the matter, and they have let me sign it off myself as I am a heating engineer!! , I certainly know the BCO won't be poking around in the CU asking why there are 2 wires in the ground floor lighting breaker!!!, he's more likely to ask why there are 2 breakers for the ground floor lighting (if we do what my sparks wants)
No one asked me who's going to be doing the work when i started, he has been round as a friend as the work has been done, and he knows where all the wires run, so I don't think its so wrong what we are doing, I guess i just pushed him too far when i questioned the 2 wires into a breaker issue!! I realise after questioning a few, that all sparks are taught this, but none of them know why, other than "good practice"!!!, but the cleverer ones realise that its not something thats in the regs, just the recommended way, and when your talking about 1 , 1.5mm2 extra 'spur' to 0.25a of lighting (4 led bulbs), of course you can have 2 wires to the breaker!!!, or at the worst put a JB adjacent to CU !!!
Interestingly , I also installed a wood burning stove and thermal store, complete with new twin wall chimney , I couldnt find a HEATAS engineer to sign it off, for love nor money!! I told building control the truth of the matter, and they have let me sign it off myself as I am a heating engineer!! , I certainly know the BCO won't be poking around in the CU asking why there are 2 wires in the ground floor lighting breaker!!!, he's more likely to ask why there are 2 breakers for the ground floor lighting (if we do what my sparks wants)
If that's so, then I have no idea when it started to become accepted as being recommended "good practice." So long as there is nothing about the design of the breaker terminal which makes it suitable for only a single conductor, then there is absolutely no reason not to run two branches of the same circuit from one terminal (obviously in the case of a ring final there have to be two conductors there!).
In fact, although the effect might be minimal in most cases, running separate branches from the breaker instead of a single conductor and branching off somewhere else could help to reduce voltage drop.
thanks PBC, you are in the US!! hence immune form this indoctrination that UK sparks are infected with!!!, I might trawl the internet for installation manuals to see if theres anywhere that says that a 6a rcbo shouldn't have 2 wires in it!!??
I can totally understand where this mis information comes form, firstly , the desire to keep the inside of CU's uncluttered and organised, and secondly to teach sparks to spot, say an oven and shower in the same breaker, but i believe that the teaching, (and good working practice that goes with it), needs to be tweaked and sparks given the knowledge and confidence to think for themselves, its silly teaching people how they 'should' be doing things without telling them why!, its patronising to trainee sparks just telling them what to do, and NOT TO QUESTION IT!!,
I can totally understand where this mis information comes form, firstly , the desire to keep the inside of CU's uncluttered and organised, and secondly to teach sparks to spot, say an oven and shower in the same breaker, but i believe that the teaching, (and good working practice that goes with it), needs to be tweaked and sparks given the knowledge and confidence to think for themselves, its silly teaching people how they 'should' be doing things without telling them why!, its patronising to trainee sparks just telling them what to do, and NOT TO QUESTION IT!!,
You will probably just find that it gives you the maximum size cable the terminal will take i.e. 25mm² 35mm² etc.
You can have a tidy CU with two 1(.5)mm² cables in a breaker! He's just set in his ways clearly
You can have a tidy CU with two 1(.5)mm² cables in a breaker! He's just set in his ways clearly
Though in the U.S. now, I'm actually British, but as my background is more electronics & telecommunications, not whatever might be termed the "normal" British electrician's training, I was immune anyway!
Then for pity's sake stop quibbling and let him do it the way he wants - you have absolutely no right, in these circumstances, to do anything else.
If all he is doing is the inspection and testing part of a 3-signatory EIC then be aware that BC might well, at the end of the day, ask for design and construction signatures.
When you applied for Building Regulations approval, before starting the extension etc, what did you say, or allow to be said on your behalf, or what assumption did you by default accept, would be the way you would ensure compliance with Part P?
I'm not surprised. You really don't know, or want to accept, how all of this works, do you.
They will do neither.
And don't be very surprised if you run into problems with them issuing a completion certificate.
...... error
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