Dormer woes

[blister_mobby]

I’ve screwed up big time.

I left my loft conversion (semi-detached bungalow) in the hands of the experts, or so I thought. I’d done everything by the book. Had plans drawn, got planning permission, found a reputable local builder, got my neighbour to sign a party wall agreement, and then left them to get on with it.

Everything went reasonably smoothly and building regs were signed off. The builder was paid in full.

Then my next door neighbour pointed out that the dormers encroach onto her side of the roof by about 10cm. I now know that the dormer should have been stepped back slightly and that would have avoided this, but it was built straight off the party wall. It was designed that way - it’s there in the plans (well it shows it built off my half of the party wall anyway) so I don’t think this is the builder’s fault, although perhaps they should have pointed it out.

Altering the construction now would be a nightmare - the stairs landing would become too small for building regs, so the stairs would need moving, which would lower the head height so an RSJ would need raising, two doorways would need moving, bathroom retiling… there’s just no way we could afford to do all that. It would probably be easier/cheaper for my neighbour to have a conversion too and join it up to mine.

My neighbour says she’s not so much worried about the 10cm, more what will happen if she needs to sell up and move house and the buyer’s surveyor picks up on it. Luckily we’re still on fairly good terms.

Yes I screwed up, I know it’s my responsibility and that this is causing my neighbour a load of stress and worry that should have been avoided. I’m trying to sort this out as much for her as for myself and if I could afford to knock the dormer down and rebuild it correctly I would.

Is there a way we could come up with a legal agreement over this that will satisfy any future purchaser’s solicitor?

 

[^woody^]

Is there a way we could come up with a legal agreement over this that will satisfy any future purchaser’s solicitor?

You could, but that will certainly arouse a buyer's suspicion.

Leave it and deal with any issues should they arise, not create issues needlessly. It's not much of an issue in real terms.

 

[chappers]

have you got a picture of the outside, I very much doubt it would even get noticed

 

[tony1851]

As above, a thing like this is easy to miss on a survey. Also, if it was picked up by an observant surveyor, what problem would it raise?
I suspect your neighbour is being a bit picky.
Are you quite sure it goes 10cm over the centreline of the party wall? Is the party wall the normal 225mm brickwork, or is it perhaps single-skin?

 

[noseall]

I suspect your neighbour is being a bit picky.

 

[tony1851]

?

 

[noseall]

?

You think it's perfectly acceptable - trespass?

 

[tony1851]

You think it's perfectly acceptable - trespass?

No, not at all.
But look at the bigger picture. The neighbour doesn't seem concerned, except if she should sell the house, and the issue comes up then.
Does she expect the OP to spend a small fortune setting it in 10cm, when it may never be raised as an issue if the neighbour's house was sold?
If the neighbour forced the OP to cut it back, it could end up in court and a judge would have to weigh up the options: would the restitution of 10cm of roof be worth the considerable cost of cutting it back. I suspect in this case the neighbour would just get nominal damages plus costs. And if and when she sells the house, she would then have to declare there had been a dispute.

 

[noseall]

I don't think the neighbour is being picky. There are some valid reasons for not having part of your neighbours extension on your property.

 

[blister_mobby]

Sorry about the bold text, not sure what happened there.

The party wall is double brick, and my understanding is the line of ownership is the down the middle. The drawing showed the dormer being built up off just my half, but with the tile cladding and fascia it covers her half of it too. I've been told that technically the dormer trespasses on her property as it crosses the centre line.

Neighbour has been asking around for advice and one solicitor told her our houses are unsaleable, and the council told her they could make me pull down the extension. If I can reassure her that everything will be fine I'm sure she wouldn't pursue anything like that, but she's a worrier and scaremongering solicitors aren't helping.

On the plus side it isn't that easy to spot - you have to be stood on exactly the right place and count bricks.

 

[tony1851]

I very much doubt your houses would be 'unsaleable'; and the council can't order it to be taken down. There are always people around who enjoy stirring things up.
Presumably the studwork is on your half of the wall, and the battens and tiles and fascia(?) take it over on to her half?
If so, could you offer to remove the tiles and battens, and put something like render on mesh to thin it off? Might not look so good, but if she wants the space.....?
Alternatively do nothing, and see if the neighbour really wants to pursue the issue in court. If she's reasonable, she won't.

 

[blister_mobby]

...you offer to remove the tiles and battens, and put something like render on mesh to thin it off? Might not look so good, but if she wants the space.....?

Actually that's a very, very good idea. I could suggest that we leave it as it is for now, and IF there's any problem when she comes to sell then we could do the rendering to make it compliant. That might just be enough to keep her happy! Thank you.

 

[chappers]

Neighbour has been asking around for advice and one solicitor told her our houses are unsaleable, and the council told her they could make me pull down the extension.

I wouldn't get him to do any legal work for me. What he has said is a blatant lie. I could buy your house, taking the risk that maybe one day the neighbour might enforce the trespass or buy the neighbours knowing you had some of my 'airspace'.
Your neighbour could grant you an easement many properties have easements such as flying freeholds or access rights. It would be up to a potential purchaser as to whether that was acceptable to them. The council could only enforce the removal if it breached planning. The trespass would be a civil dispute outside of their jurisdiction.
In the event of a neighbour wanting to build their own loft conversion the sensible option for both parties would be to bring the two dormer faces and roofs in as one anyway.

 

[garyo]

Can't you (and your neighbour) argue that the design that's in place leaves both houses in the best position for the neighbour to have an equivalent dormer, maximising the roof space for both of you, and minimising the maintenance pain of having 100mm of maintenance 'air space' between two tiled dormer cheeks.

I.e. if you'd both wanted to build a dormer extension at the same time, then your dormer would have been built in exactly that position. What you've left your neighbour with is the perfect 'future proof' structure to minimise his/her effort when they decide to make an equivalent.

 

[Gazman16]

Get a price to build her a small dormer under PD that abuts yours?
Just big enough for a small window to let some light into the attic and formalize any agreement for any future connections to your dormer.
Then either do it or give her all or part/all of the money?

Actually building it would probably be the best easiest and cheapest thing legally speaking.