Consumer unit in bathroom?

[JohnW2]

Hang on ! Note the "due consideration of evironmental conditions"

Quite - and I strongly suspected if you asked the manufacturers of a CU whether it was suitable for installation in a humid environment, they would probably say no.

Furthermore, as you will probably recall, there has been previous debate about the assertion/interpretation made in the answer to which you link. That answer suggests that the inside of a cupboard which is located within Zone 2 of a bathroom does not count as being in Zone 2. However, if one assumes that the primary reason for the Zone 2 restrictions relates to risks of users of the room touching electrical equipment, then common sense would suggest that the above-mentioned assertion would only really be appropriate if there were no possibility of the cupboard door being open whilst the room was being used. That could really only be (almost) achieved with a locked door - and the potential issues regarding that have already been mentioned. Quite apart from the CU, the DNO might to be happy with their equipment being in a locked cupboard.

If (as seems to be implied) there is another room on the other side of the wall, might it not be possible to have a totally 'closed and sealed 'cupboard' in the bathroom, with access through the wall from the adjacent room.

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

Page 40 of https://issuu.com/redactive/docs/con_aut16_full_lr

Thanks! Unfortunately, it's asking for a log-in.

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks! Unfortunately, it's asking for a log-in.

It must dislike you - it let me look without and log-in! It actually appears to be on page 41, by the way.

However, as I implied, the answer given in that magazine is merely the author's personal interpretation of BS7671 - which, as I said, is something which has been discussed/debated here in the past - so it should not be taken as 'gospel'!

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

Thanks. Got access to the magazine but I think I'm on the wrong planet... I can't find the article!

 

[crappy]

If (as seems to be implied) there is another room on the other side of the wall, might it not be possible to have a totally 'closed and sealed 'cupboard' in the bathroom, with access through the wall from the adjacent room.

The problem I see with that is that the shared wall with the other room is the old external wall. The feed and meter are mounted squarely in the middle of the wall / cupboard. Behind it are the kitchen units. So, trying to grant access from behind it and have it as a sealed box becomes a hassle. I would have to remove the units, knock the wall back a bit and effectively be point one on my other options list.

It's a real pain

 

[John D v2.0]

Personally I'd avoid it as our bathroom has water dropping down the walls, but if the manufacturer is happy then I suppose it's no different from any other equipment.
Also I doubt the dno would worry too much about putting it in a cupboard, although there are minimum dimensions, they have to get through your locked front door first after all.I think you have to give them access to inspect every 2 years, so keep the key handy.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Top of page 40. Reply says nothing more than outlined above.

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks. Got access to the magazine but I think I'm on the wrong planet... I can't find the article!

OK, this should be readable on your planet ...

As I said, it's just the author's interpretation of BS7671

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

The problem I see with that is that the shared wall with the other room is the old external wall. The feed and meter are mounted squarely in the middle of the wall / cupboard. Behind it are the kitchen units.

Ah, fair enough - as you say, that would be a pain. It was only a thought

Kind Regards, John

 

[crappy]

I think that screen print you did says it all though. It will be in a sealed cupboard, vented into the kitchen to help with humidity. I will "lock" it with a standard panel key. It's more to stop the curious and the unintentional use for storage by SWMBO for makeup etc

I think those things will be satisfy the above interpretation. It will effectively be half/half in zone 2 according to my current plans (SWMBO changes her mind often).

Thanks for the feedback chaps (and chappetes?). Much appreciated.

 

[securespark]

Thanks, John.

I can see that on my planet.

It is a typical published answer to any number of queries about 7671.

There is an initial emphatic "Yes" followed by a "however...." disclaimer.

Personally, I would try and avoid a situation like that if at all possible.

 

[JohnW2]

I think that screen print you did says it all though. .... I think those things will be satisfy the above interpretation. It will effectively be half/half in zone 2 according to my current plans

Yes, it would satisfy "the above interpretation", but that is just the interpretation of the regulations produced by someone who wrote in that magazine.

As I've said, the debate about interpretation relates to whether the inside of a cupboard within Zone 2 counts as 'not within Zone 2' if it can be opened (even if a key is required).

What you are proposing is far from unknown, even if not ideal. Whether it would be strictly compliant with regulations is, as I've said, a matter of interpenetration/opinion, so you will probably find that different people have different opinions - and that includes the Building Control Officer.

As has been said, you also need to consider the wisdom of having your CU in a locked cupboard, such that one would have to fumble about looking for the key (perhaps in the dark) if one needed to get to the CU 'in an emergency'. The BCO might possibly also take that into account.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

It is a typical published answer to any number of queries about 7671. There is an initial emphatic "Yes" followed by a "however...." disclaimer.

Indeed. However, as I've been saying, I think that even their initial 'Yes' is open to debate, since it relies on their assertion that the inside of a cupboard is not in Zone 2, even though the cupboard itself is (at least partially) within Zone 2.

Let's face it, the same argument could be put forward in relation to a cupboard in Zone 1 (or even Zone 0!!!) - and I doubt that many of us would be very happy with that!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Is there actually anything in BS7671 regarding cupboards?

It mentions 'partitions' around which extends the 600mm. distance - so if this cupboard is small enough that all of its interior is within 600mm. of the bath (especially if the door was hinged on the farthest side from the bath) then, surely, it would not be acceptable even with the door being lockable (which does not mean it would be locked).
Does 'only accessible by means of a tool' include a key which may be left in the keyhole?

 

[JohnW2]

Is there actually anything in BS7671 regarding cupboards?

Nothing of which I am aware.

It mentions 'partitions' around which extends the 600mm. distance - so if this cupboard is small enough that all of its interior is within 600mm. of the bath (especially if the door was hinged on the farthest side from the bath) then, surely, it would not be acceptable even with the door being lockable (which does not mean it would be locked).

I think it's all to do with opinions and interpretations. We've previously discussed a door into what might be described as a 'different room' (e.g. a 'dressing room' or bedroom), which door might often (or always!) be left open. What you say makes sense in terms of the common sense I previously mentioned, but I'm really not sure about it regs-wise. However, as I said, a similar argument could be applied to Zone 1 (or even Zone 0), and I really don't think that it is intended that 'electrics in a cupboard' would be acceptable in such a Zone, do you?

Does 'only accessible by means of a tool' include a key which may be left in the keyhole?

As always, your guess is as good as mine as regards what was their 'intention'. I would personally say that a key left in a lock was not withing the spirit of 'only accessible by means of a tool'. However, does that phrase actually arise anywhere in relation to what we're talking about, anyway?

Kind Regards, John