Chimney breast - creative solution

[FRAN1870]

Hi all,

I want to remove a chimney breast in my daughters bedroom to give us more options on bed / furniture postions ( don't like the idea of her bed under the window ).

Anyway on the picture the blue arrow shows where the corner of the chimney breast is supporting one of the loft conversion beams. The purple section is the bit I want to remove.

The chimney has already been removed above to ceiling level and I should mention that theirs also a false ceiling joists attached to the breast .... how's best to approach this ? Gallows bracket on the right ?

I will of course be speaking to my structural engineer but looking for ideas

 

[FRAN1870]

Here the picture

 

[vinn]

Why not post photos showing the c/breast to ceiling line, & another of the whole c/breast.

If you are aiming for more room then remove the whole c/breast up to the ceiling joists.
Assuming the c/breast below is absent or redundant?

More info on what you mean by: "loft conversion beam - if you mean one of the loft conversion floor joists is resting on top of the c/breast then thats a bad construction detail.
The joists should run to the outer walls. I dont see how what you say works.
In your finished loft conversion photo can you point out the position of the bedroom c/breast?

Is that back wall a party wall or a gable wall?
Are there any gas pipes or elec cables in the c/breast area?

 

[FRAN1870]

It's a gable and the SE said it was better to use the corner of the breast as well as a single brick seating into the gable because the of the condition of the gable brickwork and also the position of the beam was such that we were just on the edge of the where the inner skin met the opening for the chimney.

The beam is only actually supporting the roof and a stair well trimming and not actually any floor joists.

Then bedroom from the first photo is on the left through the door and the rough footprint of the chimney is in blue ... the beam runs across as per the blue line.

Building controlled have passed this structurally ? Surely a problem would have been picked up then ?

Photo attached and will post the joist layout plan shortly


Thanks for the comment so far

 

[FRAN1870]

This is the configuration but the beam is actually where the yellow line is and not as drawn ( because where it's drawn the gable is single skin ( rear of removed chimney stack ) and wasn't great condition to be honest. We moved it closer to the stair well for a more solid fix on the inner skin / corner of the chimney stack.

 

[vinn]

From what I can make out, after checking with your SE:
Assuming you have tied-in bricks and support from below then just remove the redundant half of the chimney breast, and leave in the half you need for continuing support.
Brick up any remaining voids after wire brushing all the soot from any flue brickwork.
Render with sand and lime.

 

[FRAN1870]

I was going to dry line and insulate the gable wall ... that will stop the salts right ?

 

[vinn]

Dry lining is a bad practice anywhere - thats my take on it.
It will not stop salts and any damp penetration into the "cavity" behind the board can possibly cause damp and mould.

 

[FRAN1870]

I agree, my neighbour did it to hide thier damp patch ...

I'm sure there must be a way ? If I seal it with Pva then hardwall instead how can I insulate it ?

 

[vinn]

What salts are you referring to - salts from the old flue soot or salt that's penetrated the bricks of that wall. But the wall appears to be a party wall? The only outside wall seems to be the wall with the window?

Following the directions I gave you above will give you a wall that can be decorated after it dries out.

 

[FRAN1870]

Thanks fella, was talking about the salts from the flu / soot but having now inspected the situation further it would appear that the half I want to remove is full to ceiling level of bricks and rubble, so it would be complete ( even more so ) nightmare now to remove.

The side down to ground level is clear enough I've attached pictures where you can see the loft beam sitting on the breast.

I'm having second thoughts tbh ....

Pros:
Doing the work would mean we can get bed / bunks across the back wall or even a double bed instead of it being a single room.

Cons:
The mess and cost
The integrity of the loft beam will need looking also ( but I think

I really don't know what to do

 

[vinn]

I can see a joist that has been run into a flue and is resting on the single brick flue wall.
For a few reasons, there's no way would any BCO I've dealt with allow such an arrangement.
Neither would I have detailed such a construction.

If you wish to bite the bullet, then prop the joist in question, and remove the whole chimney breast (both flues) down to first floor level.
You could then bolt a noggin or block in the joist bay - tight to the joist.
Then use angle brackets from noggin to joist, to pin the joist in place. A heavy duty angle bracket could be bolted to the wall below the joist - google pics of these HD brackets.

Removing the debris from the LH flue is a simple matter - just pick it out and put it in a bucket.

FWIW: I was under the impression that the chimney breast above the ceiling had been removed from the stack down?

 

[FRAN1870]

It's actually a double ( bolted together ) with the sister is sitting on the returning side / corner of the chimney breast. BCO and the SE have passed it but you've got me worried now, taking out this breast might case more problems than it cures ?

Ref the chimney ... it has been removed to ceiling joists ( or near as dammit ) but there's also a false ceiling which is pinned to front face of the breast. So we could only get so far down if I wanted to ... I just did the minimum to get the loft installed.

Do You reckon a gallows bracket would suffice for that beam end though ? as mentioned it's only actually supporting the roof and not any floor. It's also supported from below by the studwork attached to the staircase.

I'll of course be working with my SE before I do owt

 

[vinn]

If BCO & SE have passed the arrangement then go with that - they are on site seeing all the variables.
The false (dropped?) ceiling would be irrelevant - it could be removed altogether or later made good.

Why use a gallows bracket(s) when I've shown you a way of using a better support.
From what you say, the sistered LH joist in question is actually doing nothing for anything at the moment? I'm not even certain as to how the other RH joist is situated? Or how supporting the roof comes into it - is the stud wall supporting a purlin?

Good luck with your issues but this will be my last post on this thread. Hopefully others will help and advise you.

 

[bernardgreen]

FWIW: I was under the impression that the chimney breast above the ceiling had been removed from the stack down?

Ine should never give advice based on on impressions. Removing chimney breat while the stack above is still in place is just a little bit stupid and carries a high risk of the stack coming down through roof and ceiling(s). That would make an impression

Good luck with your issues but this will be my last post on this thread.

Sounds good.