Smart meters?

[ban-all-sheds]

So we know the cooker and shower use a lot of power, so if the cooker is left on, or the shower is left on, then you want the smart meter to do something smart.

Would that be as a substitute for the occupier doing something smart, like not leaving the cooker or the shower on?

 

[Doggit]

A recent article said that the so called smart meters can overread by 600 percent if you have low energy bulbs, as the way they handle the electriciy affects the meter. Some estimates give the cost for the meter as about £300, but I don't know if it's done on an increase in the stabding charge, or on the unit price, which means low users will pay less for their smart meter, than higher usage users will.

There has been reports of faulty smart meters switching the power of (this feature allows them to do it remotely if you are in arrrears) so this alone proves that it's for the suppliers benefits, not yours. Untill thet start supplying clamps that you can put your equipment, that will link into your phone/computer, and actually show what each item is consuming, and over what period, then smart meters are just a waster of time for consumers. I give it 3 years before everyone with a smart meter gets put on a variable tarrif that whilst promising to reduce your costs, will actually cost you more.

 

[winston1]

A recent article said that the so called smart meters can overread by 600 percent if you have low energy bulbs, as the way they handle the electriciy affects the meter.

So was that in the sun, or perhaps the Daily Fail? SMPTs as in low energy lamps (not bulbs) are used in just about everything these days. Do you really believe that smart meters were not designed with the latest equipment in mind?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I won't be getting one until they turn up on my doorstep with a police escort

This US site is basically by and for the tinfoil hat brigade, but some of the countermeasures and attitudes are interesting.

e.g.

PGE showed up a few days later, told me that I had to have the smart meter or my service would be shut off. I threatened them with gunfire if entering my property​

 

[matz]

on the basis that our new smart meter is accurate, it does save us money because it makes me more aware of what costs what and I have without a doubt altered our energy consumption. As an example - running the smart meter digital thing for both gas and electric each day gives me more or less instant read out of what we are using and the first thing that became obvious is how much the gas CH boiler is using so i started turning the stat down more often and further (much to my wifes disgust lol) Electric usage doesnt seem to alter much unless we used our big tumble drier. Gas seems the biggie here. I would say the smart meter is definitely enabling us to save money on energy bills but then we were are not frugal people so plenty of scope for us to save as opposed to those that run their house on a shoestring. As for hacking and spying I'm not losing any sleep over that and if its not accurate that will come to light in due course. Its obvious why the energy companies want to put them in, it enables them to remotely monitor usage. I'm not sure why there seems to a backlash against these things.....

 

[Doggit]

The article about meters switching themselves off was linked from a previous thread on here, but I can't remember if the low energy lamps issue was an internet article, or the Mail. I think the caveat was that it was an old problem that should have been corrected by now, but there are still unsesolved issue between different suppliers old meters stopping you changing suppliers. I think the new ones are supposed to be more compatible, but I for one certainly won't change until necessary.

Sorry Matz, but when you reailse thay the big companies are out to extract as much money as possible from you, you then start to get suspicious of anything they offer you that has such positive benefits. Now does that sort of attitude make me a cynic, or just a realist.

 

[JohnD]

A recent article said that the so called smart meters can overread

I've heard an industry rep claim that this applies only to the display, not to the usage shown on your bill.

I do not intend to allow smart meters to be fitted in my house until there is an advantage to me.

I see no advantage in giving suppliers, or Russian Hackers, the ability to turn off my power remotely. I provide my meter readings online every month, and never get an estimated bill.

I already have Owls which give real-time display of usage, and record it on my PC. I already know that the tumble drier, and electric heaters if used, cost significant money; and that chargers, lights and TVs don't. I can see from the Owl if lights have been left on, or the garage frost heater has cut in.

 

[Doggit]

So what's Owls please John

 

[omega015]

I'm sure I have seen you can opt out of certain usage tracking to enable energy companies to only produce a basic analysis of your usage. This is probably due to those complaining about tracking, spying, selling of the information (which the latter isn't far off what could happen). Data is very valuable in this digital age, look at google and facebook and how much information they have on people and what they can do with it, so it makes sense that energy companies will look to use that data for their own benefit.

Also energy companies aren't going to pass on much of the savings they make (if anything) by installing these meters (unless forced by the government), I suppose at best I would assume they can offer a more flexible tariff that is cheaper during very specific time slots when demand is low or even integrate with some notification/alert system saying something like the "next hour is free electricity" or "free electricity weekend" or something to that effect.


From: http://www.energy-uk.org.uk/custome...ted-with-smart-metering-and-is-it-secure.html

How often your data is transmitted can change depending on how much you are prepared to share. Your energy supplier can collect:

• A monthly meter reading without needing to ask you
• A daily meter reading giving you the ability to opt-out; or
• A 30 minute meter reading if you opt-in to a service your supplier provides that requires detailed data on your consumption.

 

[JohnD]

Owl energy meter with wireless link to the sensor clamp on the supply cable.

http://www.theowl.com/
various models
but cheaper http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Other-Appliances/20715/i.html?_sop=15&_from=R40&_nkw=owl+energy+-phones you might get a used one for a tenner

or

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_f...rgy+meter.TRS0&_nkw=owl+energy+meter&_sacat=0

because so many people buy one, use it for a bit, then lose interest. The CM160 has a USB connector for a PC. There are other models.

There are a number of different brands around. There was a brief fashion for energy companies "giving" them to customers who signed up for a higher-price tariff.

I went for Owl because at the time I was looking, it came out fairly well in Which; had a version that connects to the PC, and was readily available on ebay. There might be better ones now.

If you have solar panels you can learn how to optimise use of your washer, drier and dishwasher to minimise cost. The Immersion Controllers are so expensive that they are not an economical proposition.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

on the basis that our new smart meter is accurate, it does save us money because it makes me more aware of what costs what and I have without a doubt altered our energy consumption.

Why didn't you know beforehand that using things when you didn't need them, or leaving things running after you had finished with them, was causing you unnecessary expense? Did you think that some things were free to use, or didn't consume electricity or gas?

As an example - running the smart meter digital thing for both gas and electric each day gives me more or less instant read out of what we are using and the first thing that became obvious is how much the gas CH boiler is using so i started turning the stat down more often and further

Why, beforehand, were you having the house hotter than you actually wanted? Did you think that gas was free to burn once the indoor temperature reached <whatever>°C?

Electric usage doesnt seem to alter much unless we used our big tumble drier.

Why did it come as a surprise to you that a big electric tumble drier uses a lot of electricity?

I would say the smart meter is definitely enabling us to save money on energy bills

I would say that you could have saved that money beforehand by applying a little thought, by not using things when you didn't need to, by not having the house hotter than you want, and so on.

Its obvious why the energy companies want to put them in, it enables them to remotely monitor usage.

What benefits accrue to the consumer from the energy companies having that ability?

I'm not sure why there seems to a backlash against these things.....

How about the fact that every single 'pro' is on the supplier's side, every single 'con' is on the consumer's and it is the consumer who is made to pay for them?

 

[big-all]

with gas costing about 1/3 the cost off electric then a kw saved means more when its an electric kw saved
also with things like a tumble dryer you would need to check consumption every few mins through the full cycle
your t/d will use say 2.5kw and run for say 90 mins so use 2.5kw x1.5h=3.75kw
well no it will cycle in and out with more off time as the washing dries with perhaps 10% on in the third 1/4 and fully off in the final 1/4cycle
so 3.75kwh will be possibly 1.5-2units
i worked out a full load off washing and tumble drying costs me about 30p or 2.5kw/units at 12p with the washing cycle around 0.8 units and tumble on 1.7units

 

[matz]

does Owl measure gas? when our Smart meter was fitted we got a new meter. Its the gas usage that has surprised me...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

@big-all - having worked all of those things out are you now not washing and drying clothes as often as you used to?

 

[matz]

ban all sheds, if you (one) run your house on a shoestring turning off every light, hanging the washing over the rads, not having the CH unless you're shivering then you know you are using the minimum amount of energy possible. If you are not fixated on the cost of everything you do , fixated being the operative word, then its likely you will have less idea of what your energy is costing.

I would imagine by installing smart meters, the energy companies save on meter readers for a start - lets face it, sending a man round every 6 mths to physically read a meter could be thought a bit archaic?