A thread for discussing "when is a Transformer not a Transformer" (technical and semantic)

[winston1]

No, it is you who will not accept that anything which transforms anything IS a transformer.

You simply cannot argue with that .


If you want to specify a particular type of transformer then you will have to add one or more descriptors.


Other words for transformer are converter, changer, alterer etc.

A transformer is an electrical item that transfers electrical energy between two or more circuits through electromagnetic induction. There may be other things which transform something but they do not come under the definition of transformers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer

==============================
"Boilers" don't boil.
"Electronic Transformer" is widely used and accepted, and that's good enough.
Get over it.
If you keep raising it, you're likely to find you can't make further posts.
Mod
==============================

 

[EFLImpudence]

You cannot say that a transformer is only a specific item but there are other things that transform which therefore are also transformers.

You must call your items electromagnetic induction voltage transformers.


The wiki definition is obviously written by someone with as restricted thinking as you.
It could be rewritten with a more comprehensive view, such as that for 'driver'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver
which is not limited to a description of a person who moves cattle from place to place.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

a description of a person who moves cattle from place to place.

Are you sure you don't mean 'drover'? Personally never heard that called 'driver'.

 

[EFLImpudence]

The would not have suited the argument.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_drive

It seems to be equally valid.
I haven't looked into the origins but drover is quite an odd word.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Sorry, posted wrong link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_drive

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

You may have proved my point - that article does not contain the word 'driver' in the context you suggest.
This one, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drover , does define 'drover'.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Ok.

It may be an Americanism or Australianism.
If there are cattle-drives then there must surely be cattle drivers.


Anyway, for the thread, substitute one who controls a motor vehicle or a golf club.
The point is the same and not specific upon the word used.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

OK. I would assume that you didn't ever do a lot of cattle-drives in the UK.

However, if you must join in the bullying about use of words, it would be better if you got it right yourself.

And for the record, I have a lot of sympathy for someone trying to keep the meaning of the English language clear and useful. It is just that in this case, have recently tried to buy one of these things in B&Q, I realise that the battle is already lost.

 

[EFLImpudence]

OK. I would assume that you didn't ever do a lot of cattle-drives in the UK.

What has that to do with anything?
I grew up watching westerns, though.

However, if you must join in the bullying about use of words, it would be better if you got it right yourself.

It is not bullying - any more than you are doing.
Is driving cattle wrong?
Should we all be droving cars.

And for the record, I have a lot of sympathy for someone trying to keep the meaning of the English language clear and useful.

It is unclear what you mean. Are you referring to me or Winston?

It is just that in this case, have recently tried to buy one of these things in B&Q, I realise that the battle is already lost.

One of which things? How is it lost?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I would remind people that these things are not incorrectly named.

They transform voltage and are electronic in nature.

You are giving false information.

Which bit is false? That they are not incorrectly named? That's true - by definition they are electronic transformers.

That they transform voltage? That's true - they do.

That the are electronic in nature? That's true - they are.

These things are NOT transformers. Transformers are wire wound devices that work by magnetic induction.

One type of transformer is that.

Other types of transformer are other things.

Anything which transforms must be a transformer of some sort, given the word.

There are cigarettes and there are electronic cigarettes. The latter are not cigarettes, but they do deliver nicotine in a form to be absorbed by the lungs. They just do it differently to cigarettes.

There are books and there are electronic books. The latter are not books, but they do display text for people to read. They just do it differently to books.

There are transformers and there are electronic transformers. The latter are not transformers, but they do transform voltage. They just do it differently to transformers..

These things you refer to are SMPS, no doubt about it.

And those SMPSs are often known as electronic transformers.

A transformer is an electrical item that transfers electrical energy between two or more circuits through electromagnetic induction. There may be other things which transform something but they do not come under the definition of transformers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer

They come under the definition of Electronic Transformers.

Try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer_(disambiguation) and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-mode_power_supply_applications#Lighting

 

[bernardgreen]

If a switched mode power supply module producing 19 volts DC is a transformer then connecting a lap top to any transformer producing 19 volt would be safe and the lap top would be correctly powered.

Ah that doesn't seem right. Yes it isn't right, the SMPS used to supply a lap top is not refered to as a transformer nor is it refered to as an electronic transformer.

No..... it is labelled "Power Supply"

Seems peope who have been involved in designing lap tops are better informed about transformers than those people profiting from marketing lighting equipment to the general and generally ignorant public.

Go on BAS prove your point and connect your laptop to a transformer instead of its power supply module.. Any transformer of the correct voltage will do if you are correct in your opinion.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Anything which transforms must be a transformer of some sort, given the word.

Then anything which 'resists' current is also a 'resistor'. I must remember to look out for a 20W Edison resistor next time I'm in the lighting section. Oh, and a 100uF resistor too. Do you know where I can get one of these resistors?

 

[bernardgreen]

There are some bus conductors collecting fares for electrons travelling from CPU to RAM.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If a switched mode power supply module producing 19 volts DC is a transformer then connecting a lap top to any transformer producing 19 volt would be safe and the lap top would be correctly powered.

Please stop trying to insult our intelligence by dropping the word "electronic" in an attempt to resurrect your doomed argument against the term "electronic transformer" by pretending that things like this are called transformers.

They are not - they are called "electronic transformers". If you actually take the trouble to look you will see the truth of that.

Ah that doesn't seem right. Yes it isn't right, the SMPS used to supply a lap top is not refered to as a transformer nor is it refered to as an electronic transformer.

Nor is this:

But this is though:

Did you have a useful point to make?

Or have you decided to try a new way to insult everybody here by expecting them to believe that because some power supplies are not called electronic transformers none of them must be?

Seems peope who have been involved in designing lap tops are better informed about transformers than those people profiting from marketing lighting equipment to the general and generally ignorant public.

No, it seems that they have given their products a different name.

But...

Oh dear.

What are we to do now?

And also, since you've brought the topic up again, will you please explain how "people profiting from marketing lighting equipment to the general and generally ignorant public" are assisted in running their legitimate businesses making and selling products which people need by calling them "electronic transformers" whereas they would be hampered if they called them "power supplies".

I guess you could try your Plan B, which is to ignore that sort of question, and to blithely continue expecting us to believe that the name does affect what is inside, or does affect the nature of the device, or does allow makers to sell items to the public which they could not do if they used a different name of which you approved. You've been doing that all along, so I guess you must think it's working.

Go on BAS prove your point and connect your laptop to a transformer instead of its power supply module.. Any transformer of the correct voltage will do if you are correct in your opinion.

Please stop trying to insult our intelligence by dropping the word "electronic" in an attempt to resurrect your doomed argument against the term "electronic transformer".

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Anything which transforms must be a transformer of some sort, given the word.

Then anything which 'resists' current is also a 'resistor'. ...

Please take your complaints about the meanings of words to the editors or lexicographers working for the publishers of dictionaries, for I can do nothing about them.

Nor, BTW, can you do anything about the definition of "transformer".