Fuse in a spur

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jay2506
  • Start date Start date
So the rest of the world allows cables to be installed which are known to be inadequate to carry the load expected of them?

Blimey.

No, poor punctuation apparently.

Isn't it apparent from "Ib ≤ In ≤ Iz" and 433; and also as Britain is the only place that uses them (additional fuses).
 
Because the lowest rated fuse what is suitable for the connected load will blow quicker than a higher rated fuse what is also suitable for the load. Of course the cable feeding the appliance being suitable for the fuse in the first place.
It's IbInIz

Not IbIn << Iz


If I wire an alarm panel using 2.5mm² T&E, does that mean I should use a 13 amp fuse feeding it because 2.5mm² T&E can safely carry greater than 13A?
It means that you may use a 13A fuse.


Or that I wire a 100W motor in 1.5mm² flex I should use a 13 amp fuse, again for the same reason as proposed above?
You may.


Anyhow, while the BS1362 fuse in the FCU is primarily designed to protect the cable feeding the appliance, having a second means of over current protection provided by the BS1362 fuse in the FCU (Or the only means for devices lacking any OCP at all) can not be a bad thing under most domestic circumstances.
How do the billions of people in the rest of the world get by when they are unable to avoid this bad thing?
 
Because he failed to notice, when removing the old one, where it goes?
 
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and regulations are harmonised,

but not identical.

When you say the external fuse is to protect only the cable and the internal fuse is to protect the equipment ask yourself one question.

How far does the "external" cable extend into the equipment before reaching the internal fuse that is protecting the equipment.

Does it meet the fuse immediately at entry point as in this power inlet with fuse built in

inlet with fuse.jpg

or does the cable wend it way from entry point and into the innards of the equipment before meeting the fuse that protects the equipment. A short from Live to Neutral on the cable between entry point and the internal fuse will be "protected" only by the fuse in the 13 plug or FCU and not by the internal fuse. A dead short should result in the fuse blowing quickly but a low resistance short circuit fault could generate a lot of heat inside the appliance before a 13 amp external fuse blows.
 
A dead short should result in the fuse blowing quickly but a low resistance short circuit fault could generate a lot of heat inside the appliance before a 13 amp external fuse blows.

Not if the bit of cable inside between the entry point and the fuse is correctly rated at 16 amps in its surroundings.
 
Not if the bit of cable inside between the entry point and the fuse is correctly rated at 16 amps in its surroundings.
The heat may not be generated in the cable but in other material(s) inside the appliance that is (are) linking Live to Neutral. Think about faults that might happen and not what should happen in normal use and condition.
 
How far does the "external" cable extend into the equipment before reaching the internal fuse that is protecting the equipment.
Either zero distance, or until the point where the csa reduces below the level which can be protected by the circuit OPD.


A dead short should result in the fuse blowing quickly but a low resistance short circuit fault could generate a lot of heat inside the appliance before a 13 amp external fuse blows.
Any faults which occur inside the equipment are entirely the responsibility of the manufacturer.


The heat may not be generated in the cable but in other material(s) inside the appliance that is (are) linking Live to Neutral.
And those materials are entirely the choice of the manufacturer, and therefore he is entirely responsible if they are inadequate.


Think about faults that might happen and not what should happen in normal use and condition.
Think about electric showers.

Open one up and you will find it choc-full of PCBs, electronic components and wires way too small to be protected by a 50A device.

Do you know of any makers who say there must be 2 supplies - a 50A one for the heating, and a 3A one for the control gubbins?

If they can do it, why can't everyone?
 
Now I^_^m confused...

So am I, not sure which shower BAS has been looking at.

The last few electric showers I have dealt with have had nothing more than a flow switch, maybe a solenoid to control the flow, a power switch to switch power to one or two elements as required and some safety thermostats to cut power in the case of water and / or heating can becoming too hot.

No doubt some of the better showers with superior functions will have PCB's but then a low current fuse will be incorporated ( may be disguised as a fusible resistor ) to protect the PCB from over current damage.
 
So am I, not sure which shower BAS has been looking at.
In my case the Redring Selectronic.


The last few electric showers I have dealt with have had nothing more than a flow switch, maybe a solenoid to control the flow, a power switch to switch power to one or two elements as required and some safety thermostats to cut power in the case of water and / or heating can becoming too hot.
Any one with membrane type pushbutton controls.
Any one with a digital readout.
Any one with remote controls.
Any one with an on-off switch clearly not clunky enough to be a mechanical 50A rated jobby.
Any one with thermostatic regulation rather than a crude over-temperature cutout.


No doubt some of the better showers with superior functions will have PCB's but then a low current fuse will be incorporated ( may be disguised as a fusible resistor ) to protect the PCB from over current damage.
Precisely.

So if they can do it, why can't everybody?
 
No, they were too small to contain a suitable protective device. Basic physics.
No, they were deliberately made too small to contain a suitable protective device. Basic crap design,


Because it clearly is not necessary to omit internal protection and have to rely on the circuit device, so it is clearly a deliberate decision to do so, so it is clearly a deliberate decision to make a flaky and inadequate product.

That should never be acceptable.


And therefore accessories are not outside the scope of BS 7671.
 
No, they were deliberately made too small to contain a suitable protective device. Basic crap design,
What about products that are designed to fulfill a task that requires them to be a certain size or they cannot be used?
Because it clearly is not necessary to omit internal protection and have to rely on the circuit device, so it is clearly a deliberate decision to do so, so it is clearly a deliberate decision to make a flaky and inadequate product.
As above, sometimes it is necessary. It does not result in a flaky or inadequate product when used in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.
And therefore accessories are not outside the scope of BS 7671.
I think you need to read it again.
 

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