Shocking discovery.

USA has some really odd systems, one of their systems uses delta wound secondary with one winding centre tapped and earthed, so with a three phase supply you have two phases quite low to earth but third is much higher.
I have come across this in the past on a large (10 or 20KVA?) site transformer, IIRC the 2 phases were correct at ~55V but the 3rd was more like 100V to earth, I scratched my head for a while on that one as each outlet was ~110V across the lives.
Another consisted of 3 55V windings in star but ~90V across the phases and fluo lights struggled to strike.
 
Sponsored Links
Had a nice experience earlier today... Not.
Hotel swimming pool had to be closed off due to filter plant failure.
The power was isolated while some leaking pipes were replaced but it would not restart on power-up.
The big clue was the shock I got off the contactor enclosure when I pushed the green button. At some time in the past the 400v coil contactor (still laying on the floor) had been replaced with a 230v version and as there was no neutral in the pump circuit it was connected to earth instead. As the metal pipes had been replaced with plastic there was now no earth either.
The 3phase supply was a 3core flex with those long established phase colours of: black, blue & yellow!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40388161

Could have been so very different outcome :(

Nozzle
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40388161

Could have been so very different outcome :(

Nozzle
Thanks for the reminder Nozzle.
Funny thing is I have given some thought to this several times and had wondered what the effect could have been. As it happens the risk was minimal as the pump body was only live while the start button was held in and then any current was limited by the coils resistance.
It also occurs to me that I haven't mentioned, on the Monday morning the sparks fitted a substantial bonding wire 16~25mm² to the control panel and a chunky braid to a copper bar running along the wall, I hadn't noticed it before as it was well and truly painted the same as the wall.
Seeing that news report has given me the shivers and makes me wonder if I should have got involved, my only saving grace is there is a decent set of test gear on site, their maintenance guys were clued up on its use and repeated tests several times before accepting it was ok.
 
All of a sudden shivers ran down my spine when I heard the news today...
 
Sponsored Links
A nice little email today from this hotel and I quote:
...thank you for helping with the repair and getting our pools running, the management would like you to know our pool area has just undergone an update which included a refit and full rewire of the plantroom, Davido has noticed the only part of the wiring remaing is the piece of cable you so keenly installed during the repair...
Very impressive as we haven't been back since.
 
A nice little email today from this hotel and I quote:
...thank you for helping with the repair and getting our pools running, the management would like you to know our pool area has just undergone an update which included a refit and full rewire of the plantroom, Davido has noticed the only part of the wiring remaing is the piece of cable you so keenly installed during the repair...
Very impressive as we haven't been back since.


Even more impressive:
...offer a free all inclusive stay for you and your family group...
 
In your first couple of posts, it read like you were working on this installation as an electrician and found an apparently dangerous situation.
Then you post that it's not that dangerous, as only you had felt a shock.

Then this just gets bizarre, as you post that you were actually a hotel guest who stepped forward to save the day.

The hotel has 500 guests who are antsy because they can't use the pool. Saturday was forecast to be hot (IN SPAIN IN JULY!!!!!) and the contractors were not due on site until the Monday.

The MANAGER could get the electricians back, should be no problem, given you felt a shock in the wet area.

Or, you sort the problem for them. As you have no training, qualifications, verified experience or insurance the hotel would be at risk if your work led to you or somebody else being injured.

The 'entertainment staff' enthusiastically accepting your offer to help out and off you go, rigging up a cable using off-cuts and various glands that were lying around (full on BA Baracus).

Then you were able to carry out full tests as the electricians had left loads of test kit. I don't know any electrician who would leave test kit on site overnight, never mind for a weekend. I could easily replace a stolen screwdriver, but not my MFT. Also, I never know when I may get a call to an emergency over the weekend.

Finally, and this is the best bit. After you saving the weekend, the hotel give you a refund of 1400 euros. For 3 hours, that's an hourly rate of 467 euros. 3 years later, the hotel replaces the pool equipment and the only bit of wiring that survives is the cable you installed. The hotel is so grateful for your help, they are giving you an all-inclusive holiday for your family group. This offer would easily bring the hourly rate over 1000 euros. This at a time where hotels are struggling financially due to the pandemic.

If admit to being more than a bit skeptical about this post. I would say that if Winston posted any of theses claims he would be annihilated in here.
 
I'm rather intrigued that discussion/comment has suddenly arisen about some work which was reported as having been done over 3 years ago, and I'm also not quite clear as to what is now being suggested - is it really been suggested that the original posts (hence, presumably, also the subsequent ones) were 'fiction'?

Kind Regards, John
 
In your first couple of posts, it read like you were working on this installation as an electrician and found an apparently dangerous situation.
Then you post that it's not that dangerous, as only you had felt a shock.

Then this just gets bizarre, as you post that you were actually a hotel guest who stepped forward to save the day.

The hotel has 500 guests who are antsy because they can't use the pool. Saturday was forecast to be hot (IN SPAIN IN JULY!!!!!) and the contractors were not due on site until the Monday.

The MANAGER could get the electricians back, should be no problem, given you felt a shock in the wet area.

Or, you sort the problem for them. As you have no training, qualifications, verified experience or insurance the hotel would be at risk if your work led to you or somebody else being injured.

The 'entertainment staff' enthusiastically accepting your offer to help out and off you go, rigging up a cable using off-cuts and various glands that were lying around (full on BA Baracus).

Then you were able to carry out full tests as the electricians had left loads of test kit. I don't know any electrician who would leave test kit on site overnight, never mind for a weekend. I could easily replace a stolen screwdriver, but not my MFT. Also, I never know when I may get a call to an emergency over the weekend.

Finally, and this is the best bit. After you saving the weekend, the hotel give you a refund of 1400 euros. For 3 hours, that's an hourly rate of 467 euros. 3 years later, the hotel replaces the pool equipment and the only bit of wiring that survives is the cable you installed. The hotel is so grateful for your help, they are giving you an all-inclusive holiday for your family group. This offer would easily bring the hourly rate over 1000 euros. This at a time where hotels are struggling financially due to the pandemic.

If admit to being more than a bit skeptical about this post. I would say that if Winston posted any of theses claims he would be annihilated in here.
The electricians had not been involved on this part of the system, they had only been installing new cables on complety unconnected [as in not yet connected to supply] equipment, glands and cable offcuts were 'laying around', as were as yet unused hundreds of pounds worth of assorted parts in big piles of boxes, I dare say if I'd looked further I'd have found some whole glands in their packets.
The hotel staff had changed metal pipework to plastic, for maintenance reasons but prompted by preparation for connecting in the new plant. That was the point at which the hazzard became apparent.
The issue of not being able to get an electrician on call out was something I struggled to understand too but I don't know enough about the Spanish working lives.
Although I have little relevant qualifications I have lots of working experience, panels and plant room wiring had been my main day to day work for a good number of years so lots of quoteable experience for some major companies.
The tools and test kit belonged to the hotel and it was their staff did the testing, That's not to say I didn't use any of it but they were the ones who took the measurements and logged the readings. Yes I dare say my europe wide insurance would have been flakey in the situation. And as my posts indicate there were a couple of electrocutions shortly after which I have no hesitation in admitting scared me.

I'm sure the report of it being the only bit of cable left is an exaggeration, especially as most of it is hidden in trunking.

The hotel has something like 700 rooms so I dare say their capacity is in the order of 2000 people so one way of looking at it is it cost about 50p per guest for a weekend of satisfied customers.
Yep reading it all back does look horrible but not as horrible as the angry scenes, mostly by drunk Brits and loud Germans competing for attention.

Yep their struggling alright, so much so that they decided to take advantage of the low numbers by closing in mid September, a whole month and a half early and spent loads of money on the place. Seriously I don't know their financial status but they did close early to get on with renovations/repairs etc and certainly don't usually struggle to fill the rooms, they have regulars who've been going back since the 60's. We spoke to one family of 3 generations, he proposed from the stage, they had their wedding there and were celebrating their golden anniversary. I think they'd stayed something over 40 times. I think it was our 6th visit and we had started bumping into familiar faces. It's not the sort of place where you'll get cheap late bookings.

All of that said, yes I'm being a bit flippant but I do fully understand the current problems and the difficulties everyone are having. However the last two visits our group of 6 were accompanied by 2 more families, 16 total last time and 18 before that so they're probably hoping the rest will be tagging along with us if we go and this isn't a cheap place, your estimate of E1000 is more like E1500 according to their currently published figures.
 
I'm rather intrigued that discussion/comment has suddenly arisen about some work which was reported as having been done over 3 years ago, and I'm also not quite clear as to what is now being suggested - is it really been suggested that the original posts (hence, presumably, also the subsequent ones) were 'fiction'?

Kind Regards, John
it's been rekindled as I've received an email from the Hotel offering a free holiday as a thankyou.
 
it's been rekindled as I've received an email from the Hotel offering a free holiday as a thankyou.
Yes, I realised that, and wasn't referring to that rekindling of the thread, per se. My intrigue related to the post immediately prior to my recent one.

Kind Regards, John
 
I find this thread really stretches credibility.
I have worked alongside lots of guys who never went through the college courses. Most, are excellent sparks. However, not many would think of stepping up as you did. I have the certs, experience and insurance to work with confidence in the UK. Given I have no idea what the regs are in Spain, I would not get involved. Working with water and electricity is risky enough. Add the location and the legal implications for getting it wrong would scare me off.
The idea that the hole would let a guest sort their installation, based on conversations between the guest and the entertainment crew just doesn't sound remotely feasible. IF this really happened both you and the hotel owners would face serious consequences if you caused injury.

I'd be surprised that 500 drunken Brits and loud Germans would not turn up in social media somewhere, or would not have led to a call to the police.

I'm not sure the finance model works - paying you based on the number of angry guests is a new one. Assuming their hourly rates are similar to ours, 20 euros p/h would be good for a maintenance electrician. You stepping in led them to pay you more than 1500 euros an hour. They are not very good business men doing that.

Your posts about the work done don't all make sense. The hotel called out the electricians but they were only coming on the Monday. Yet, the hotel has a load of test kit, as the electricians are hotel employees. The dates don't add up. Your first post was 03/06/17 (Saturday) and you said you worked because the electricians were not available until the Monday. In your post dated 04/0617 (Sunday) you said their maintenance guys had tested the installation, so how does Monday fit in here?

I get that not all work is done by trained/qualified electricians. However, word of mouth normally needs an independent body giving a reference, rather than you telling the DJ (or whoever) how brilliant you are at electrical installation. Just out of curiosity which hotel is it?
 
Having read the thread again I believe my posts have given enough detail to describe who has done what ,when and where, the details won't change if I go right through the whole thing again.
However I will offer that I have plenty of working experience in such environments and a little experience of working in Spain in a different technical genre. I offered my assistance, probably only because my party wished to get wet, but quite frankly having 2 deaths in swimming pools so shortly after I'd be hesitant to do so again.
As to the Hotel concerned, the trade has been bad enough recently, no they don't need that publicity there was enough at the time on social media but somehow it missed tripadvisor.
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top