Hip to gable loft extension and how it works

[platforminc]

Hi All.

In my area, I have seen people do hip to gable loft extensions, now having read the council website, their policy seems to be to allow for a 200mm gap between the roof and gable wall, so that tiles can be used for the dormer.

People who have done the hip to gable extension have used the permitted development rights, now I want to educate myself on how the process works. I was wondering if anyone can answer the questions that I have below.

1. In the case of the house pictured, they didn't apply for planning permission. So is this illegal or how does it work and who certifies the work.
2. I do not know much about permitted development, how if the council certify it after the works have been done, how can you tell that you are on the right path ?
3. I am guessing that building control would need to be involved, if so. how does this work when one hasn't applied for planning but yet seeking building control input.
4. How can one ensure that if one goes down the permitted development route, the end product (hip to gable loft) has been done properly and avoid a situation where the council may not certify it or ask for changes to be made after the structure has gone up.

Thanks in advance.

 

[tony1851]

1. The house pictured shows a perfectly legal hip-to-gable conversion under permitted development.
2. (don't understand that question).
3. Building Control is completely separate from Planning Permission - nothing to do with each other. For Building Control, you can either
use your councils' own service, or employ an approved private inspector.
4. You can apply for a determination by the council that it is permitted development either before you start or after it is completed, but you would need
some plans of the work.
5. Are you hoping to drop the owner of the house in it?

 

[platforminc]

Thanks for the reply. I saw some application whereby the title says proposed hip to gable extension etc. So I'm guessing they have applied for a determination in this case and is this as good as planning permission.

What are the risks or disadvantages of building it and then applying for a certificate of lawfullness afterwards?

In this type of application can you include other works for example a porch and converting a garage to habitable room ?

How much does a determination cost a s how much does a certificate of lawfullness cost? Thanks in advance.

 

[Leofric]

If that is permitted development the planners can't be too fussy,wonder what it looks like from the back ! What type of application ,if it was permitted development you wouldn't need to submit a planning application? It would be safest to have drawings prepared for everything you want to do , loft conversion, garage conversion and porch and make an enquiry to the planning department. Bldg regs approval would be required for the loft conversion and garage conversion and possibly porch,these can be based on the planning drawings but contain more technical information.

 

[tony1851]

Thanks for the reply. I saw some application whereby the title says proposed hip to gable extension etc. So I'm guessing they have applied for a determination in this case and is this as good as planning permission.

Yes.

What are the risks or disadvantages of building it and then applying for a certificate of lawfullness afterwards?

If the householder is sure it is permitted development, they don't need to apply for a LDC.

In this type of application can you include other works for example a porch and converting a garage to habitable room ?

Yes.

How much does a determination cost a s how much does a certificate of lawfullness cost?

£206 if work is already completed, £103 if work has not started.

Thanks in advance.

 

[wessex101]

I'm not so sure the example in the photograph is permitted development. If you line up the roof ridge with the neighbouring property it looks like the flat roof on the dormer is higher than the original ridge. Also it looks like the new window in the gable is open-enable but below 1700mm of the floor.

If that job does have an LDC it would be interesting to see if it has been built in accordance with the submitted plans.

 

[platforminc]

I'm not so sure the example in the photograph is permitted development. If you line up the roof ridge with the neighbouring property it looks like the flat roof on the dormer is higher than the original ridge. Also it looks like the new window in the gable is open-enable but below 1700mm of the floor.

If that job does have an LDC it would be interesting to see if it has been built in accordance with the submitted plans.

They didnt submit plans yet, they just did it and I guess apply for a certificate of lawfullness after.

 

[tony1851]

It could be a staircase window?
You might be right about the ridge, but if it's a small amount, would the council take action, particularly in view of the chimney?

 

[platforminc]

Also have a question for these kind of extensions, the gable wall, is it better in timber frame or brick wall. what are the pros & cons ?

 

[Leofric]

In my opinion it just looks unattractive carrying the gable wall all the way up to the new flat roof of the rear extension and would look better mirroring the pitch of the front of the roof at least for a few tiles in and then forming the loft extension in dormers. Difficult to explain but a designer could come up with some alternative treatments for the rear elevation. I would guess the rear elevation of that house is a bit ugly. The walls of the houses in the photo are rendered so you wouldn't carry them up in brickwork. You could consider vertical tile hanging I suppose.

 

[platforminc]

its kind of subjective, a few people i asked really liked it because it flows with the colour of the render. Whereas having a normal dormer extension with the tiles is more hte norm but you loose that flow and it pops out.

 

[Leofric]

but you were suggesting brick or timber ! I bet an architect did not design that extension, it just does not look right, but as they say 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'

 

[wessex101]

but you were suggesting brick or timber ! I bet an architect did not design that extension, it just does not look right, but as they say 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'

Say what you mean. I think it is absolutely hideous, very poor design. I can vaguely see why they changed to grey roof tiles to match the render (even though they don't match the ground floor extension) but on one half of a pair of semi's? It's a joke surely? Is the owner blind?

I wonder if that change of roof tile alone is enough to scupper the permitted development situation. Is a grey roof tile "similar" to a brown/red roof tile? From that photo I would suggest not.

 

[tony1851]

surely? Is the owner blind?

I wonder if that change of roof tile alone is enough to scupper the permitted development situation.

Isn't a change of roof tile colour - or even a change of roof-tile type (eg clay to concrete) permitted development?
In which case the council couldn't enforce on the difference in colour?

 

[Leofric]

' Say what you mean. I think it is absolutely hideous, very poor design.' - Doubtful it was even 'designed' , just done . If that sort of thing comes under permitted development they should change the Planning rules. Matching the existing roof tiles would normally be a fundamental requirement to suit the planners.

platforminc said - ' now having read the council website, their policy seems to be to allow for a 200mm gap between the roof and gable wall, so that tiles can be used for the dormer.' - I wonder if this is what I was saying about not building the side of the rear roof extension (dormer) up on the same faceline as the gable wall. Anyway, hopefully platforminc will not try and copy the extension in the photo.​