Is there a future for vented systems?

I thought france was full of unvented cylinders?

Maybe, I have never inspected any plumbing there, although I would guess there might be some vented there. They don't seem to exist in Germany and Switzerland. One should be able to tell by the existence of separate hot and cold taps, since vented hot is not technically potable.

Separate hot and cold taps seem unique to the UK, although I have seen them on very old bathroom sinks in Canada, but they disappeared a long time ago.
 
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Normally the reason for separate taps is because the hot water is lower pressure and not potable. Not that some people don't install them anyway, you can still buy them in Canada, and they even make sinks that take them, mostly for appearance to make them look retro. They are just not popular, everyone has unvented systems and most have mixer taps.
 
We could go through all the unlikely scenarios all day long.

I think it has long been proven that a vented system is inherently safe, the worst case I've ever heard of is that the system vents over, softens the plastic cistern and then hot water can be released to the inhabitants below.

It has also been proven that an unvented cylinder can explode when it's over pressurised - https://forum.nachi.org/t/exploding-water-heater-in-phoenix/30989/2

There are always risks no matter what system is used but I know which one would be preferred in a failure situation.

Aren't we discussing 2 separate things here? I believe the original post was about the difference between a boiler, primary circuit, using either a F/E tank or a pressurised expansion vessel. Chance of an explosion in either case I would guess is extremely low.

But it's moved on to possible explosion of the HW cylinder. That can also be unvented, mains pressure, or gravity, fed from a cold water storage tank. Whether one is more of an explosion risk than the other I don't know, but it's hard to see how the primary circuit being pressurised or or vented would affect it.
 
Aren't we discussing 2 separate things here? I believe the original post was about the difference between a boiler, primary circuit, using either a F/E tank or a pressurised expansion vessel. Chance of an explosion in either case I would guess is extremely low.

But it's moved on to possible explosion of the HW cylinder. That can also be unvented, mains pressure, or gravity, fed from a cold water storage tank. Whether one is more of an explosion risk than the other I don't know, but it's hard to see how the primary circuit being pressurised or or vented would affect it.

A third option is a thermal store, which does both and can be vented or sealed.

I suppose that eventually all manner of vented systems will die out. The exception I have heard is for areas will very poor mains supply, where you might actually get better flow from your tank in the loft.
 
Any boiler must have some method of limiting pressure to safe level, and Watt and Trevithick argued about this back in the early 1800's. Watt wanted low pressure, Trevithick used high pressure however the big change was a fuel supply that can be turned off quickly.

So in real terms with gas and oil we can turn off the fuel supply to stop over heating, with solid fuel it is a lot harder, so safe method is 22 mm or larger pipes so when a side or back boiler actually boils the pressure build up is limited, clearly the header tank must be able to take boiling water, the safety is only as good as weakest link, so thermal plastic header tanks should be banned.

It does not matter how many over temperature thermostats are added, open venting has to be safest method. Specally using multi-fuel, if the solar panels are any good, they can over heat, OK using electric solar panels means they can be turned off, but we have seen the results of an immersion heater thermostat failure so still a risk.

To fit a system which can't be expanded to use more than one fuel is some what short sighted so with a house any bigger than 2 up 2 down the idea of a combination boiler is short sighted.

With modern heat exchangers there is no reason why the DHW should not go through the hot coil so you can still have hot water same pressure as direct cold water even with a vented system.

Be it a high pressure boiler in a heritage steam train or a house central heating, it needs boiler inspections at regular intervals, we see homes still with no earth to lights when they should be inspected every 10 years or change of occupant which ever sooner and the rules changed in 1966. So it is clear high pressure system will no be checked, and the lack of inspection hatches to inspect shows how poorly made the systems are.

Even from new many homes have dangerous systems installed, my father-in-law had a gas fire fail, on removal it was clear the flue bricks had never sealed, gas safe guy fitting new sealed it with ducting tape, which peeled off once hot. So clearly can't trust tradesmen to install safely, so best idea would be to ban sealed systems until some testing procedure has been developed.
 
That is just silly, there are no vented systems outside the UK, so I guess no explosions.

No that comment is just plain silly, of course there are vented system outside the UK. Open vented systems are not exclusive to the UK!! A lot of countries where mains water is not an option or stored water is used to supply hot water through a centrally heated system, all use different iterations of a vented system. A lot of European countries as well as the US.

I am not saying that vented cylinders are better, I clearly stated I have an unvented system and wouldn't change it as it is better that an open vented as I get my 3 showers and all the hot water I need. In a failure condition open vented systems are much safer as they don't cause the devastation that un-vented cylinders do when they explode and they do.
 
I suppose that eventually all manner of vented systems will die out. The exception I have heard is for areas will very poor mains supply, where you might actually get better flow from your tank in the loft.
That's to do with HW from the taps and shower.
In #23 you said "My current vented system's F&E pipe is way less than that (2.5m), and the system is full of sludge, and one of the radiators has rusted through. It is around 25 years old", which I assume is the primary circuit. Is the 2.5m a pipe length? Sounds like it needs a good clean, Powerflush or something, and replace the leaking rad. Then add the correct dose of inhibitor, and you should be OK for years. Of course you can convert it to a sealed system if you want, but I wouldn't.

Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/is-there-a-future-for-vented-systems.536256/page-2#ixzz6ABriLVN1
 
Plenty of open vented cylinders and open vented boilers here in beautiful blighty,when either wears out they can be replaced with open vented cylinders or boilers without the need to charge the customer quiet a lot of extra money for converting etc.

why make the job more expensive for the customer ?

The 2 separate water taps,its down to preventing potable water contamination (y)

thermal stores have been mentioned but you have Heath Robinson ideas about them,hey stick to what you know Not what google tells you :mrgreen:
Coming from Canada, and having lived in Europe for some years,
Kind of thought so :idea:
 

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