At my wits end with this heating system PLEASE HELP!

[iateyoubutler]

Is the air bottle / auto vent working properly ? it's the only place for air to escape the coil

I have heard air coming out of it, but it happens very rarely. I would imagine, that it being where it is the air would just go straight past it rather than out of it? I`m starting to come to the conclusion now that the whole thing is badly laid out, which is why I was talking above about starting again

 

[Gasguru]

As Hugh says the H pattern is a much better way to pipe up...give the air a chance to vent.
It looks like there's a gate valve on the feed pipe from the F&E cistern...shouldn't really be there (safety issue), is this fully open and is the cistern got sufficient water in it?
However, I suspect you might have a poor flowrate to the cylinder and the water is partially ketling in the boiler.
What's the bypass valve (near the pump) set to? You probably only need it set to 1m or 2m (0.1 - 0.2 bar) to give it a chance of opening and increasing the flow through the boiler.
I'd also screw the air vent shut...run the system and see if any air is released with opening. AAVs can be more trouble than they're worth.
Also check your pump valves are air tight...the gland nuts on the spindles and the large ring nuts.

H pattern feed and vent

• Gasguru
• 26 Oct 2010
• 1

 

[iateyoubutler]

As Hugh says the H pattern is a much better way to pipe up...give the air a chance to vent.
It looks like there's a gate valve on the feed pipe from the F&E cistern...shouldn't really be there (safety issue), is this fully open and is the cistern got sufficient water in it?
However, I suspect you might have a poor flowrate to the cylinder and the water is partially ketling in the boiler.
What's the bypass valve (near the pump) set to? You probably only need it set to 1m or 2m (0.1 - 0.2 bar) to give it a chance of opening and increasing the flow through the boiler.
I'd also screw the air vent shut...run the system and see if any air is released with opening. AAVs can be more trouble than they're worth.
Also check your pump valves are air tight...the gland nuts on the spindles and the large ring nuts.

H pattern feed and vent

• Gasguru
• 26 Oct 2010
• 1

Thanks Gasguru

I`m going to go with the H pattern, seems to make perfect sense reading what everybody says here. Yes there is a gate valve on the cold feed which I understand is wrong, it is very useful for filling the system though as I can do it slowly or gradually. It is fully open, and the system has been drained and re-filled twice in the last 12 months, so I know all is good with regard to the roof tank (cistern).

Had the boiler 9 years now (where does the time go?!) and the problem has been there all that time, I`ve tried absolutely everything that I can think of. Time to re-pipe - I`m quite looking forward to having a go at it

 

[45yearsagasman]

View media item 29821I used to repipe systems like this, and there's no way air can be drawn into the system.

 

[polesapart]

I agree the vent arrangements could be improved but CH ok and

The strange thing here is, if I switch the boiler thermostat off and run the hot water circuit (so just the pump), there is no noise/air/gurgling etc, it is only when it`s being heated.

I'm with Hugh here:

I do wonder is if it is putting heat into the water faster than the Ideal did, and the system is struggling to dissipate that heat into the cylinder quickly enough.

OP You can reduce the rate of heat input on the 4 series by altering the D0 parameter on the boiler fascia following the instructions in the boiler manual.
Factory setting 15; try 8 or 10.



Been like this nine years? Never queried it whilst having the boiler serviced or with the original installer in its first year of operation?

 

[iateyoubutler]

I agree the vent arrangements could be improved but CH ok and



I'm with Hugh here:



OP You can reduce the rate of heat input on the 4 series by altering the D0 parameter on the boiler fascia following the instructions in the boiler manual.
Factory setting 15; try 8 or 10.



Been like this nine years? Never queried it whilst having the boiler serviced or with the original installer in its first year of operation?

The guy who installed the boiler, who I`ve known and trusted for many years did a lot of head scratching to find an easy answer and he did say back then that the layout wasn`t great, I`ve just learnt to live with it to an extent, but now, as I have more time on my hands I`m going through the house sorting out niggles, and this in recent months has started to do my head in, hence I fancy the challenge of doing the job myself and it will be so rewarding if it works!

 

[polesapart]

Fine, just suggesting to try it on a lower heat input first.

 

[iateyoubutler]

Fine, just suggesting to try it on a lower heat input first.

Thanks but I don`t know how to do that, is it in a menu?

 

[iateyoubutler]

Fine, just suggesting to try it on a lower heat input first.

Just read up on how to do it, and put it right down to 5kW

Still playing up..............

 

[polesapart]

Thanks for responding; do report back when you've changed the vent!

 

[iateyoubutler]

Thanks for responding; do report back when you've changed the vent!

Sure I will I`ll put up a before and after shot. Going to take my time with it though, want to get it right

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I'd concentrate on getting the 'H' in first, then refit your 3 Port valve, (powerhead must not be underneath in case it leaks!), then reconnect the appropriate ports to the CH and HW cylinder again. Personally would redo the return in 22mm, and fit a gate valve just outside the cylinder to control flow rate. Just be careful working on those primaries near the cylinder, you dont want to be undoing something you didn't intend to!

 

[iateyoubutler]

I'd concentrate on getting the 'H' in first, then refit your 3 Port valve, (powerhead must not be underneath in case it leaks!), then reconnect the appropriate ports to the CH and HW cylinder again. Personally would redo the return in 22mm, and fit a gate valve just outside the cylinder to control flow rate. Just be careful working on those primaries near the cylinder, you dont want to be undoing something you didn't intend to!

I will. I`ve drawn it out on paper (don`t laugh!) and the H will be going roughly where the gate valve is now from the cold water inlet. The motorized valve will be going at 90 degrees to where it is now, so on it`s side, and the pump will be turned 180 degrees, so the electrics will still be on the side. I`m going to re-use the flow pipe to the cyclinder, but am unsure of how the flow and returns are fitted to the cyclinder? I`ll probably drain the cylinder too when I come to work on it, just to be on the safe side!

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Primary flow and return are usually connected by means of a Female Iron to copper coupling, on the Male tails top and bottom end of the coil within the cylinder. (The water from the hot taps is separate from the CH system contents, the water from the boiler passes through the coil and transfers its heat into the cylinder). Should find there a compression joint where the copper connect to the cylinder, if you need to alter anything, undo that, but support the body of the fitting whilst doing so to ensure the joint you want to, comes apart.

 

[iateyoubutler]

Cheers Hugh. Wish me luck!