Get Over Yourselves

[Deleted member 174758]

I'm confused.
You're saying one thing and the other.
My question is: how do they get to work 70 miles from home? (Not unusual distance for London commuters)
Do they cycle???
How do they take 3 children to three different activities in 20 minutes?
Are you sure this is a place for working class?
Because I know of many amazing places, pedestrians only, bars, restaurants, sun shining every day, but not for the working class, only for tourists and people with money who sip campari spritz for a living.

If you work 70 miles from home that is simply unsustainable if you intend to drive - and always was. I'm sorry, but all the above means that someone is putting their own personal needs before the survival of the human race (and, incidentally, their own kids). There has to be a major sea change in attitudes towards vehicles. Without it this planet is f*ck*d - and in our lifetimes (well, maybe not mine).

I lived in the Netherlands in the 1980s and the most amazing thing was the segregation between cars and pedestrians/cyclists - almost everywhere you went there were cycleways - and the adopting of the "wohnbuurt" (not sure I got that right) for new housing development with traffic calmed streets, NO through roads (major roads go round the outsides) and cycleways/footpaths - but it has to be said that the Dutch started this sort of town planning just after WWII. We are a LONG way behind them. Incidentally, I used to commute to Amsterdam or Rotterdam for 3 or 4 days a month - it was about 100km each way and there was a cheap electric train every 20 minutes during the day

 

[johnny2007]

in a well planned city, you shouldn't need such an arrangement, as a more densily populate area would have more things closer by.

Sorry, but I prefer to live in a classic house made of bricks with front and back garden rather than in a flat the size of a shoebox in a skyscraper.
I lived in a densely populated area and I run away.

 

[Stivino]

That's all very well in Holland where it is pretty flat. But, I live in Edinburgh. The city is built on seven hills and I'm not going to be huffing and puffing up Clermiston Brae in the freezing cold and urinating rain, to and from my work.

 

[JP_]

but all the above means that someone is putting their own personal needs before the survival of the human race (and, incidentally, their own kids)

A friend travels further than that work everyday.
He moved to a school that provides for his special needs kid.
He is a senior doctor at a London hospital.
I wouldn't say he is putting his own personal needs first.
He would take the train if the service didn't mean he'd be putting patient's lives at risk when he was late for work every other day, or had to leave early because the trains stop.

 

[Dork Lard]

British Leyland sold their 'Mini' car at a slight loss . . . .

It seems that no one understands why?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I wouldn't say he is putting his own personal needs first.

Of course he could have just got a job nearer to home, or a home nearer to the job. There will always be exceptions, however, like it or not a lot of people class themselves as "special" for some reason or other, but if don't people address their personal behaviour soon, there won't be a planet to hand to their grand children. It really is that simple

 

[Deleted member 174758]

That's all very well in Holland where it is pretty flat. But, I live in Edinburgh. The city is built on seven hills and I'm not going to be huffing and puffing up Clermiston Brae in the freezing cold and urinating rain, to and from my work.

I live in the Pennines, on a 1 in 4 hill. I wouldn't dream of cycling into the local town and back (partly because I don't think I'm fit enough) - I will, however, cycle one way (downhill), fold the bike up and come back on the bus. I also do my weekly shop on the train

All the arguments I've heard I used to make myself - until I sat and really considered what I was doing and why

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Oh yes I remember those days well, when there was decent public transport, horses shi**ing all over the roads, coal dust & smog everywhere..... Great days!!

You are slightly out, there - 50 years ago was the 1970s, and horse drawn transport really disappeared in the 1930s in the UK. Even when I was a kid in the 50s and 60s horses were somewhat of a rarity - about the only one I saw regularly was the rag and bone man's piebald nag, that and the milkman in the nearest village still did his deliveries with a horse and trap, but that was more to exercise the horse than anything else (his daughter, who I went to school with, was a bit of a "horsey") - for remote deliveries he had a diesel milk float. Smog and smoke started to disappear in the early 1960s when the Clean Air Act came into force, but yes, industrial towns like Wigan and Warrington (with its' steel works) were pretty grimy

 

[JP_]

Of course he could have just got a job nearer to home, or a home nearer to the job. There will always be exceptions, however, like it or not a lot of people class themselves as "special" for some reason or other, but if don't people address their personal behaviour soon, there won't be a planet to hand to their grand children. It really is that simple

I've seen this attitude on Twitter a lot recently, but would never imagine it on a DIY forum. Most professionals here could not do their jobs from home, or without a vehicle.

As for specialist doctors, as in any field, often their skills are needed far from home. His wife is a nurse. And as mentioned, his kids have specials needs. In a carless world, is he expected to ditch his career helping save lives and work in Tesco? Or live separate from his family?

Anyway, the problem is not cars, the problem is that we have a terrible public transport system in the UK.

 

[Justin Passing]

What happens in the Netherlands when it rains or freezes and everyone gets into their car?

I'm seeing more and more people who stick to a car, because they've got old and would have trouble with a pushbike, and can't walk to a bus stop.
An electric bike may well be a solution there, or what many use in many countries - electric things we used to call scooters, more substantial than a pushbike, and can at least have leg guards and screens. Just looked at a co Electroride, who do a wide range.
If this thing does what it says, 43miles, 31 mph (unlikely) then apart from feeling like granny in the Giles cartoon, for most things this would do.
https://scooter.uk.com/electroride-frost/

 

[securespark]

British Leyland sold their 'Mini' car at a slight loss . . . .

It seems that no one understands why?

Production costs too high, I would say.

In the early 70s, they were still being sold at a loss despite being in production for well over 10 years and despite price increases during that time.

 

[jj4091]

You are slightly out, there - 50 years ago was the 1970s, and horse drawn transport really disappeared in the 1930s in the UK. Even when I was a kid in the 50s and 60s horses were somewhat of a rarity - about the only one I saw regularly was the rag and bone man's piebald nag, that and the milkman in the nearest village still did his deliveries with a horse and trap, but that was more to exercise the horse than anything else (his daughter, who I went to school with, was a bit of a "horsey") - for remote deliveries he had a diesel milk float. Smog and smoke started to disappear in the early 1960s when the Clean Air Act came into force, but yes, industrial towns like Wigan and Warrington (with its' steel works) were pretty grimy

I think you missed my point, progress always has a price & the time before what irritates the op. now was not the great utopia he might think it was.

 

[wobs]

I lived in the Netherlands in the 1980s and the most amazing thing was the segregation between cars and pedestrians/cyclists - almost everywhere you went there were cycleways - and the adopting of the "wohnbuurt" (not sure I got that right) for new housing development with traffic calmed streets, NO through roads (major roads go round the outsides) and cycleways/footpaths - but it has to be said that the Dutch started this sort of town planning just after WWII. We are a LONG way behind them. Incidentally, I used to commute to Amsterdam or Rotterdam for 3 or 4 days a month - it was about 100km each way and there was a cheap electric train every 20 minutes during the day

They didn't start in WWII, but in the 80s, and just continued to try to make cities safer for people. Around the same time, the UK pedestrianised high streets and put in bus lanes, but didn't go much further.

But yes, we are a long way behind. The only way to reduce congestion is to provide alternatives, like the Dutch have done.

 

[wobs]

What happens in the Netherlands when it rains or freezes and everyone gets into their car?

They do struggle to keep snow off routes, but other than that, they seem to cope. BTW, Oulu in Finland has extensive cycles paths, which are used throughout the year until the temperature reaches -20C. They clear the snow when its only a few mm think, but of course, they are set up for such weather, whereas we rarely have snow these days.

 

[Diver Fred]

In my home area the councils are closing off (taking away?) lay-by's and other public roadside car parking and making the footpaths wider (and in many cases making the roads narrower!). They are not recovering the old kerb stones but putting new ones in place about 18inches into the road that are 3-4 inches higher than the ones they are covering up.

The PTB are now wondering why people who have their 'off road' parking taken away are parking on the footpaths. The changes haven't improved peoples lives, haven't really reduced traffic speed but does seem to have made the whole area less safe for everyone - pedestrians and vehicles - nowadays Lorries cannot pass without mounting the kerbs.