Toggle 'dolly' Switches Up or Down for 'on'

[metalfury]

Hiya,

Would you expect the light in this room to be on or off (assuming a single switch in the UK)? ...and is there a standard?

We've previously had ours as down to be on, and up to be off. However, we've had some work done to rewire the house and the switches have been fitted the other way round (Up is on).

I've read that the UK standard is to have down as 'on' (apparently it's the opposite in the US).

Just trying to work out if I need to just accept there is no standard and to accept it as is, or if it is wrong and I need to ask to have them adjusted. I assume it would just be a case of swapping switched terminals?

We had the old switches for about 10 years, so it could just be what I'm used to?

Thanks in advance!

 

[terryplumb]

Simple job to alter the wiring at the switch ,or turn the switch itself the other way up.

 

[sparkwright]

I would class the switch in the picture as being in the OFF position.

I would expect these switches to be 2 way - even if they are used for just 1 way operation.

The terminals on each individual switch MAY be labelled as COM, L1, L2. You'll have to check to see what yours are labelled as. In the example I have given, swapping L1 and L2 over would solve the problem.

Best to tell us what markings your individual switches have before changing anything.

 

[plugwash]

Other than firemans switches I don't think BS7671 regulates the operating direction of switches.

"Down is on" was and is traditional in the UK. However, few UK wiring accessories use toggles nowadays. The din rail mount MCBs, RCDs and Switches used in modern consumer units are designed to European standards and their toggles are "down is off".

So I can see how younger electricians might not consider a "down is off" toggle to be unusual/wrong.

 

[JohnW2]

"Down is on" was and is traditional in the UK. However, few UK wiring accessories use toggles nowadays.

Indeed, on both counts, for 'functional' switches.

The din rail mount MCBs, RCDs and Switches used in modern consumer units are designed to European standards and their toggles are "down is off".

I had always assumed that, even in the days when toggle (or, at least, 'lever') switches were commonplace, the (not really 'functional') switches etc. in CUs etc. were "down is off" as a safety feature, such that they would 'fail safe' if something fell on them (albeit there would not have been MCBs/RCDs around in the earliest of those days). Is/was that not the case?

Kind Regards, John

 

[sparkwright]

One significant change in the way light switches operate was the old MK 'television screen' light switches. In the early 60s up was OFF. Then they slightly changed the design, and by the late 60s up was ON.

 

[SUNRAY]

The standard for a rocker switch is in at the bottom for "on" which followed on from toggle down for "on".

I remember the early MCB's were "on" down as were the main switch in fuse boxes.


I also remember when green = go = on & red = stop = off .
Now we have green = off & red = on
I still come across systems with both options in service and it's very confusing to have a green light near a motor but a red light at the control panel.

 

[plugwash]

Indeed, on both counts, for 'functional' switches.
I had always assumed that, even in the days when toggle (or, at least, 'lever') switches were commonplace, the (not really 'functional') switches etc. in CUs etc. were "down is off" as a safety feature, such that they would 'fail safe' if something fell on them (albeit there would not have been MCBs/RCDs around in the earliest of those days). Is/was that not the case?

I'm pretty sure prior to the "Din rail" era, fuseboxes in the UK had normally had "Down is on" mainswitches. Certainly the "Wylex standard" units did.

To really confuse things, the later MCBs for wylex standard units were made to European standards and were "Down is off". So you would end up with a unit where the mainswitch is "down is on", but the individual circuits are "down is off".

 

[ericmark]

The idea is with an isolator if some thing falls on the switch it would switch it off, so in the main isolators down is always off, however for switches for lights etc, normally down is on, I remember a Seaman's distribution board where the MCB switched off in reverse direction to the RCBO which was very confusing.

However the old German bottle fuse distribution units the switches turned on/off, and old Wylex fuse boards with MCB's to replace the fuses had buttons to turn on/off, and latter ones had down for off, same as isolator.

So in real terms there is no right or wrong way.

 

[JohnD]

Hiya,

Would you expect the light in this room to be on or off (assuming a single switch in the UK)? ...and is there a standard?

long ago I worked in a major london hotel which had a lot of (old) dolly switches working like that.

at the time I lived an old house that still had a few left, and down was on.

In the hotel, down was off, and I learned they had all been turned over in the late 1960's when the hotel had a lot of american tourists and the switches were changed to suit them.

Most UK houses by that time had white plastic switches with no dolly or toggle so i think younger British guests would not be used to them.

as and when the rooms got renovated, new plastic switches were fitted.

there were still brass dolly switches operated by staff, out of sight of the public, including DC lighting for emergency lights run by banks of batteries.

I fully understand the down is off convention, and am used to it on main switches and the like where it is very common.

 

[flameport]

Rotary switches avoid all of that up/down nonsense.

 

[JohnW2]

Rotary switches avoid all of that up/down nonsense.

They certainly do, since they change 'up and down' to 'round and round' ... other alternatives change it to 'push and push' (occasionally 'push and pull'), 'pull and pull' or 'touch and touch'

However, with one such as you illustrate, would (m)any people, whether American, English or whatever, have any idea as to which position was 'on' and which was 'off'?

Kind Regards, John

 

[metalfury]

Thanks so much for the responses everyone!

My gut was that down should be on, and this backs it up.

I'd imagined that it would just be a case of swapping the L1/L2, but as the electrician is coming back to fix a few other things I'll just add this to his list.

Reckon Plugwash's idea that a younger electrician would do the other way is probably correct - the guy on site was probably mid-20s.

Really appreciate all the replies, thanks again

 

[sparkwright]

Thanks so much for the responses everyone!

My gut was that down should be on, and this backs it up.

I'd imagined that it would just be a case of swapping the L1/L2, but as the electrician is coming back to fix a few other things I'll just add this to his list.

Reckon Plugwash's idea that a younger electrician would do the other way is probably correct - the guy on site was probably mid-20s.

Really appreciate all the replies, thanks again

Or, more likely, he just wired them the way he usually would, without doing a quick continuity check across the terminals.