Colour standard for 2 way switch

[SUNRAY]

Oh, fair enough - I suppose that is reasonably logical at that location. I think 'my convention' is more related to what happens at the switch end - when it seems more logical to me that the conductor which is 'always live' (which I might, for example, want to link to another switch) should be brown. However, as said, it really doesn't matter.

Kind Regards, John

yep totally agree with all.

 

[SUNRAY]

I remember two red cores and earth, think there was a three red core and earth, but when the colours changed have not seen twin brown or three brown and earth although they would be the correct colours, but having the phase colours even if the installation is single phase does allow one to follow the colours switch to switch although all should have brown or red sleeves.

all brown is 'out there'

In the UK we had red, yellow, blue, in rest of Europe it was brown, black, black, when we harmonised and we got the grey wire not sure if it helped or hindered the European electrician as they had not bothered with keeping the phase rotation, and I know I have been caught out using a phase rotation meter when the rest of the factory was wrong.

Not all of europe, as an example spainish kit came in with black & blue twin flex, I may still have a 150m+ length 'in stock'.

It deffo hindered with phase rotation correction as swapping blacks was easy, seeing brown,grey,black one side of a contactor and brown,black,grey t'other simply looks wrong.

But you can't have a colour code for the correct three brown wires, they are all the same colour, so when one uses the wrong colours you clearly also can't have a colour code, personally I am glad we use three colours for two way switching, it does make it easier,

2 blacks would make 2 way more obvious, however that would mean brown being live in conventional system

but not sure on using blue for the switch wires, so many people jump to the conclusion it must be neutral when its not.

yep we see it all the time here but not a problem for those knowing what they're doing

Fitting sleeves or numbers and letters is all well and good when using ferrules so they can't fall off, but without the ferrule one must realise they will fall off unless shrink is used, and domestic electricians don't tend to have hot air guns or ferrule crimpers in their tool kit.

the main problem with marker numbers/letters is using the wrong size, the right size tends to stay on the wire even when gone hard

 

[sparkwright]

I remember two red cores and earth, think there was a three red core and earth, but when the colours changed have not seen twin brown or three brown and earth although they would be the correct colours, but having the phase colours even if the installation is single phase does allow one to follow the colours switch to switch although all should have brown or red sleeves.

In the UK we had red, yellow, blue, in rest of Europe it was brown, black, black, when we harmonised and we got the grey wire not sure if it helped or hindered the European electrician as they had not bothered with keeping the phase rotation, and I know I have been caught out using a phase rotation meter when the rest of the factory was wrong.

But you can't have a colour code for the correct three brown wires, they are all the same colour, so when one uses the wrong colours you clearly also can't have a colour code, personally I am glad we use three colours for two way switching, it does make it easier, but not sure on using blue for the switch wires, so many people jump to the conclusion it must be neutral when its not.

Fitting sleeves or numbers and letters is all well and good when using ferrules so they can't fall off, but without the ferrule one must realise they will fall off unless shrink is used, and domestic electricians don't tend to have hot air guns or ferrule crimpers in their tool kit.

I'm reliably informed twin brown and earth exists.

 

[securespark]

Yes, it does. I have seen three core and earth with three red conductors decades ago, but not seen the H equivalent.

 

[TimboTwo]

£32.19 for 50m

 

[JohnW2]

I'm reliably informed twin brown and earth exists.

Yes, it always has existed, as did twin red and earth did before it. From what is written here, I gather that in some parts of the British Isles it is probably 'compulsory' to use it for such things as switch drops (because 'over-sleeving' of a blue is not allowed).

In passing, I think that single brown plus earth also exists, although I've personally never seen it used.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

Yes, it does. I have seen three core and earth with three red conductors decades ago, but not seen the H equivalent.

yes they both exist, theoretically as easily as brown/blue etc but due to lack of sales/interest wholesalers don't bother stocking.

 

[JohnW2]

yes they both exist, theoretically as easily as brown/blue etc but due to lack of sales/interest wholesalers don't bother stocking.

Per my recent comment, I imagine that there is probably a significant market for triple brown in some parts of the British Isles?

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

Per my recent comment, I imagine that there is probably a significant market for triple brown in some parts of the British Isles?

Kind Regards, John

I believe so, yes. However I'll bet the number of wholesaler branches nationwide holding stock is a fairly low percentage. I once had to get some and none the 3 wholesalers in a row on the industrial estate had stock.

In that particular example the consultant was being a total PITA because he didn't get the job and insisted the 3C&E were all brown as per his spec. In one part he tried to make me change it because I'd had to sleeve blue for neutral. Saying I'll be pleased to quote then reading his spec to him in front of the client felt very good.

 

[JohnW2]

I believe so, yes. However I'll bet the number of wholesaler branches nationwide holding stock is a fairly low percentage.

In the British Isles as a whole, yes - but I would imagine that it is very freely available (probably in many/most wholesalers) in at least one of the countries involved.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

In the British Isles as a whole, yes - but I would imagine that it is very freely available (probably in many/most wholesalers) in at least one of the countries involved.

Kind Regards, John

Yes, across the water i'd imagine it will be as freely available as our popular cables

 

[winston1]

Yes, it always has existed, as did twin red and earth did before it. From what is written here, I gather that in some parts of the British Isles it is probably 'compulsory' to use it for such things as switch drops (because 'over-sleeving' of a blue is not allowed.

In the particular part of the British Isles I think you are referring to twin and earth nor triple and earth are allowed as a bare earth wire is prohibited.

 

[SUNRAY]

In the particular part of the British Isles I think you are referring to twin and earth nor triple and earth are allowed as a bare earth wire is prohibited.

But I believe it's still known as T&E or do I have that wrong?

 

[JohnW2]

But I believe it's still known as T&E or do I have that wrong?

You may be right but, if so, that would seem a little silly - one might as well say that it should be called "Line, Neutral & Earth" cable. It's really just 3-core cable (the only difference between the cores being the colour of insulation), and, logically, I would expect it to be described as such.

The T+E and 3C+E descriptors seem reasonable enough, since the 'earth', being bare, could not be used for anything other than an 'earth', hence not really a 'core' in the same sense as the others.

Kind Regards, John

 

[sparkwright]

Or 3 phase

Cal me dense, but I can't think of a typical situation where three phase would consist of a blue conductor sleeved black.