electric towel rail

[Cottsyboy]

Dear all.
I've been asked by elderly gent in village to replace his over complicated electric towel rail controller with a new easy to program controller. All he wants is an electronic timer and temp controller with a display that he can turn up or down from the contoller. If I have to remove and replace the elements to acheive this its not an issue. Google search isn't giving me any clues. Anyone done this before and what did they use please.

 

[cjcoffin]

Plenty of timers available with 1 or 2 hour boost https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SMTGBD2.html. Does he want to control the output of the towel rail (could use https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/DXFSCW.html) or the temperature of the room (you could fit a combined timer/roomstat https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SMTRT035N.html)?

 

[blup]

Dear all.
I've been asked by elderly gent in village to replace his over complicated electric towel rail controller with a new easy to program controller. All he wants is an electronic timer and temp controller with a display that he can turn up or down from the contoller. If I have to remove and replace the elements to acheive this its not an issue. Google search isn't giving me any clues. Anyone done this before and what did they use please.

Go on the timeguard website, plenty of options including plug in timers as alternatives, when appropriate, to permanent wiring

 

[cjcoffin]

I was supposing the towel rail was in the bathroom so plug-in devices are definitely non-preferred.

 

[blup]

I just drilled a hole through the wall pushed radiator flex through, and plugged in from adjoining room. Might need to extend the cable. Also needs rcd plug if circuit isn't already protected

 

[cjcoffin]

Not a good idea. If the towel rail (or your radiator) is a fixed installation it should be supplied by e.g. a spur box (and ideally located outside the bathroom), not a plug and socket arrangement.

 

[JohnW2]

Not a good idea. If the towel rail (or your radiator) is a fixed installation it should be supplied by e.g. a spur box (and ideally located outside the bathroom), not a plug and socket arrangement.

What makes you say that?

It's probably down to the semantic question of what you mean by "a fixed installation". Many an oven, and most washing machines, dishwashers and dryers etc. have a "plug and socket arrangement", but they are also pretty 'fixed' (at least in the sense that they never move) - and a good few of them are even 'built-in'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[cjcoffin]

My On Site Guide says on p 69 that socket outlets are "not allowed within 3 metres of Zone 1 (the edge of the bath or shower basin)", so unless you have an unusually large bathroom they would in practice be prohibited althogether. And the controls for the towel rail should be in the same room or on the landing outside, not in a different room.

Appliances such as washing machines etc need to be pulled out of the space for servicing so are not regarded as "fixed". Ovens are, and should have a proper separate cooker connection point.

 

[JohnW2]

My On Site Guide says on p 69 ....

The OSG says all sorts of things, by no means all of which are actually requirements of BS7671. However ....

that socket outlets are "not allowed within 3 metres of Zone 1 (the edge of the bath or shower basin)", so unless you have an unusually large bathroom they would in practice be prohibited althogether.

... on this occasion, it was probably telling thee truth (at the time it was written) - although, if I recall correctly, Amd2 of BS7671:2018 reduced-the 3m to 2.5m. I presume your OSG pre-dates that change?

However, blup's post (to which I presume were responding), related to a socket in an adjacent room, not in the bathroom itself. ... but it seems that you may have noticed, because you then go on to write ...

And the controls for the towel rail should be in the same room or on the landing outside, not in a different room.

I wonder where that came from? What is the difference between an adjacent landing and an adjacent room?

Appliances such as washing machines etc need to be pulled out of the space for servicing so are not regarded as "fixed".

Well, for a start, if they are 'built in', it's often not quite as simple as just 'pulling them out'

Ovens are, ... and should have a proper separate cooker connection point.

I'm talking about ovens, not cookers, and what you are suggesting would often involve 'cutting off the plug' - which would get some people fussing (unnecessarily) about that 'invalidating the warranty' !

I really don't think one can use the fact of whether or not something is physically movable (or fixed to the fabric of the building) to determining whether or not it is part of the fixed electrical installation. And it works both ways - as I type this and look around, I can see more than one mains-powered electronic item which is mechanically fixed to the fabric of the building but which even you would probably not regard as being part of the fixed electrical installation.

I would say that this is one of those (many) situations in which common sense should really be allowed to prevail.

Kind Regards,m John

 

[blup]

Not a good idea. If the towel rail (or your radiator) is a fixed installation it should be supplied by e.g. a spur box (and ideally located outside the bathroom), not a plug and socket arrangement.

I dont see it as a problem for a low current electric towel rail as long as the towel rail itself is in a compliant prescribed zone. Disconnecting a 13amp socket is probably more electrically safe than (and certainly as convenient as) a fused spur. That said the wall mounted electric heater is fed by a fixed spur incorporated in a timeguard timer

 

[JohnW2]

I dont see it as a problem for a low current electric towel rail ....

Nor do I, and I really see no particular reason to restrict that view to 'low current' equipment.

.... as long as the towel rail itself is in a compliant prescribed zone.

The only Zone in which a towel rail is not allowed is Zone 0 - i.e. more-or-less-literally "in" the bath or shower! Towel rails are explicitly allowed in Zone 1 (hence obviously also in Zone 2) provided only that the manufacturer says that it is suitable for the location (which I imagine they usually would/do for such an item) - so unlikely to be a problem.

Disconnecting a 13amp socket is probably more electrically safe than (and certainly as convenient as) a fused spur. That said the wall mounted electric heater is fed by a fixed spur incorporated in a timeguard timer

Agreed. As you presumably know, the correct term is 'fused connection unit', rather than 'fused spur' (which is the cable/circuit element. As for your final words there - do I take it that you mean that the timer contains a fuse?

Kind Regards, John

 

[blup]

The fused spur is as described by time guard, its the model in the link. I extended the ring when fitting it so its not technically a spur, but took a spur from that to install a socket in the loft having being dissuaded by a former poster from tapping into the lighting circuit. It added a lot of work but more important than that offered the opportunity of practical experience. Just that small job with all the route planning, floorboard lifting, chasing and making good would have cost a good deal from a pro electrician, or been too much of a small /fiddly job for them.

FST24 | FST24 24 Hour Fused Spur Timeswitch | Timeguard

FST24. Timeguard’s new look Fused Spur Timeswitches with easy viewing display, optional 1 or 2 hour boost facility and automatic Summer/Winter time chan...

www.timeguard.com

 

[JohnW2]

The fused spur is as described by time guard, its the model in the link.

So it is ...they really should 'know better' !

.... It added a lot of work but more important than that offered the opportunity of practical experience. Just that small job with all the route planning, floorboard lifting, chasing and making good would have cost a good deal from a pro electrician, or been too much of a small /fiddly job for them.

Quite. That's why we're DIYers and how we expand our knowledge/experience/skill bae.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ebee]

Yes, manufacturers (and even some Electricians) use very wrong terms. Spur being a common misnomer, Low Voltage another, Live being yet another one and Ring Main being yet again another!
I could go on and on but I would get boring - I am boring enough anyway so I do not need to become more so)

 

[JohnW2]

Yes, manufacturers (and even some Electricians) use very wrong terms. Spur being a common misnomer, ...... Live being yet another one and Ring Main being yet again another! I could go on and on but I would get boring

Indeed - as you say, many common examples.

Low Voltage another,

In my personal opinion, this is a case in which the 'correct terminology' is what is wrong In relation to something so important to the safety of the general public, to have a 'correct term' which does not correspond with what a vast majority (maybe even ~99%) of the general public believe just makes no sense to me.

Ask 'anyone' ... they are very likely to believe tnat "Low Voltage" means that it';s safe for them (or their children) to touch!

Kind Regards, John