Poss To Add Radial Circuit To Fuse Box?

[ReganAndCarter]

My mother's house is still on ye olde fusebox. It has four fuses - 2 x 5 amps for light circuits, a 30 amp for sockets ring and a 15 amp which I think is for cooker and/or immersion. The fuse box is under the stairs and she wants a double socket in the hall (no socket at present) - which would be easy to drill through bottom stair and run surface mounted cable along skirting.

Is it possible to add an extra socket on an individual radial circuit with this setup? If I got a spark into to do it, would he be able to add the extra socket, or will he insist on ripping out the fuses and putting in modern CU?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

a 30 amp for sockets

Take a spur, from that circuit.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Take a spur, from that circuit.

Thanks Harry. Do you mean spur from the socket ring circuit by joining into it where the fusebox is under the stairs? If this is possible/allowable it would be easy to run the cable out of a hole in bottom stair into the hall.

Wouldn't be practical to spur off the ring anywhere else in house as it would be quite destructive to get wires all the way to the hall.

NB. There is already one spur off of a socket in bedroom to feed a double in the garage. How many spurs are allowable on a ring?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Thanks Harry. Do you mean spur from the socket ring circuit by joining into it where the fusebox is under the stairs? If this is possible/allowable it would be easy to run the cable out of a hole in bottom stair into the hall.

Yes!

Fuses, today are not ideal, but you would not be making the situation any worse. You could improve the situation, and safety, at a low cost, by adding an whole house RCD, before the CU, after the meter, assuming there are no existing faults on any circuits. Much better, would be to replace the CU with new, and use RCBO's, one per circuit.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Yes!

Fuses, today are not ideal, but you would not be making the situation any worse. You could improve the situation, and safety, at a low cost, by adding an whole house RCD, before the CU, after the meter, assuming there are no existing faults on any circuits. Much better, would be to replace the CU with new, and use RCBO's, one per circuit.

Thanks again, that's good news. Sounds like a reasonably simple operation. Won't really be doing too many improvements as is. Mother is quite elderly and in near future place will need updating and rewire to give the number of sockets that would be expected today. Number of sockets have only been increased by one since place was built in 1961. Any CU improvements will have to wait until rewire.

 

[ericmark]

Had the same with my parents, dad stated "I'm not living in a building site, you can re-wire when I'm gone." and that is what happened, with mother in an OAP home while it was re-wired. But that was well after my dad died. So in the meantime.

The problem, as I saw it, was we had carers etc, looking after mother, so the house was a work place for those carers. So with pre-1966 wiring there were no earths to lights, and some old rubber cables, new sockets would need RCD protection, and new cable would need to be of a type which did not need protection when buried in a wall, or run surface.

There was no way I was going to use mineral insulated cable, maybe Ali-tube was an option, but at the time, could only buy a whole reel, so it was trunking and surface cables.

Talked to social services, kitchen was re-wired using a mini CH by the front door, and SWA back to main Wylex fuse box. The doorbell and mobility scooter needed a supply, and an electrical firm was employed by social services, by this time the fuse box swapped for a consumer unit with some RCD protected circuits, so it could power the new wet room, but never got any paperwork for the work done, in spite of asking, and my RCD tester would not trip the RCD, so seemed likely not on the RCD side of the consumer unit, but since social services had fitted it, it was in my mind up to them.

So in the end, dad had died, and mother taken into hospital and was on discharge going to an OAP home for a few weeks, so I took the opportunity and found someone who was a scheme member and could be in and out in the week, it was hard work for me redecorating, but worth it, as latter carers found mother with dementia and poor eyesight, had found an extension lead with a flickering neon light, thought it was on fire, so put it in a bucket of water. No harm, the RCD tripped.

There is no way with a risk assessment I would have ever thought of that scenario.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Had the same with my parents, dad stated "I'm not living in a building site, you can re-wire when I'm gone." and that is what happened, with mother in an OAP home while it was re-wired. But that was well after my dad died. So in the meantime.

Sometimes, you just have to ignore the rules, because it is safer to do so..

 

[Jurassicspark]

NB. There is already one spur off of a socket in bedroom to feed a double in the garage. How many spurs are allowable on a ring?

As much as you like.

However, you can't spur off a spur.

 

[ericmark]

I had a ring final where all the sockets were on spurs, the ring went around a fridge, rather large, forklifts used inside it, it needed cleaning, so wanted an array of sockets for cleaning equipment, so a ring final using 6 mm² SWA was run around the roof of the fridge, with junction boxes where each socket was wanted, and spurs taken to each socket 10 foot down the wall, OK commercial not a domestic, but same rules apply.

These are the general rules.

 

[crystal ball]

Sometimes, you just have to ignore the rules, because it is safer to do so..

Indeed, my MILs house is still on 3036 fuses, no RCD, I have added sockets. If I had fitted a front end RCD and it tripped she would lay there in darkness until someone called & even then may not know what to reset

 

[Murdochcat]

Without RCD protection and checks to the earthing and bonding I wouldn’t be adding a socket, nor I suspect would any decent spark

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Without RCD protection and checks to the earthing and bonding I wouldn’t be adding a socket, nor I suspect would any decent spark

I agree, that wouldn't be in the pro's interest to do that, but sometimes you have to take a more circumspect view, and assess the risks of simply adding the socket, versus not, or adding the socket, rcbo's, and upset of rewiring for an elderly person. We all know what a professional ought to insist it needs, but this is the real world..

Adding the socket, doesn't make the installation necessarily any less safe. Adding the socket, might mitigate the risk of an elderly person tripping over leads trailed across a floor. Therefore, an overall risk assessment suggests that simply ignoring the rules, and adding the socket, is the safer option, in the circumstances, assuming the OP can install it safely.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

I agree, that wouldn't be in the pro's interest to do that, but sometimes you have to take a more circumspect view, and assess the risks of simply adding the socket, versus not, or adding the socket, rcbo's, and upset of rewiring for an elderly person. We all know what a professional ought to insist it needs, but this is the real world..

Adding the socket, doesn't make the installation necessarily any less safe. Adding the socket, might mitigate the risk of an elderly person tripping over leads trailed across a floor. Therefore, an overall risk assessment suggests that simply ignoring the rules, and adding the socket, is the safer option, in the circumstances, assuming the OP can install it safely.

Exactly this. She had an extension lead trailing at present to power the phone, as the BT phone socket is in the hall. I could do it myself as I have done lots of domestic electrics, moving sockets, adding additional sockets to ring, installing downlights, repair and upgrades - but not any experience of wiring a spur directly into fusebox.

 

[flameport]

but sometimes you have to take a more circumspect view, and assess the risks of simply adding the socket, versus not, or adding the socket, rcbo's, and upset of rewiring for an elderly person. W

If it was really necessary to add a socket in such circumstances, adding an RCD is neither difficult, expensive or time consuming.
Cable from ye olde fuse box, to RCD in separate enclosure, to socket. £20 extra in parts.

any less safe.

The siren call of those who can't be bothered to do things properly.
Usually applied to things which are decades past replacement and entirely unsafe, and used as an excuse to tack on more dangerous mess because it is 'no less safe' than when they started.

 

[crystal ball]

If it was really necessary to add a socket in such circumstances, adding an RCD is neither difficult, expensive or time consuming.
Cable from ye olde fuse box, to RCD in separate enclosure, to socket. £20 extra in parts.


The siren call of those who can't be bothered to do things properly.
Usually applied to things which are decades past replacement and entirely unsafe, and used as an excuse to tack on more dangerous mess because it is 'no less safe' than when they started.

The last one I added was for a rise & fall hospital bed, if the stand alone RCD tripped she would be trapped in whatever position the bed was in