Dying wood, dyes, formulas, methods etc.

[threedee]

Need to dye/varnish some pine boards, dont know a lick about this topic.
Alcohol dyeing specifically, not staining.
I need to get an emerald green made up, with kind of french polish going on top (high gloss). Going on cedar/pine.

Something i can mix myself and something i can get in UK. Powders ? Concentrates ?

Any advice is welcome.

 

[Wayners]

I know I keep saying it here. Phone helpline for advice if they cover what you want

Littlefair's | Award-Winning Wood Finishing Products

Shop Littlefair's entire collection of award-winning wood finishing products including Water-Based Wood Stains, Finishing Oils, Varnishes and Wax Polishes.

www.littlefairs.shop

 

[threedee]

Looking at their website they dont offer anything i want. no concentrates, no colour choices. Only premade finishes, stains, oils and waxes.
I'm interested in alcohol dyes that can be mixed to get custom colours... and how to do it

 

[opps]

Need to dye/varnish some pine boards, dont know a lick about this topic.
Alcohol dyeing specifically, not staining.
I need to get an emerald green made up, with kind of french polish going on top (high gloss). Going on cedar/pine.

Something i can mix myself and something i can get in UK. Powders ? Concentrates ?

Any advice is welcome.

Morrells sell a number of spirit based stains (including green)

Morrells Light Fast Wood Stain | Quick Drying | Non-Grain Raising

Available in a range of quick drying, easy to apply light fast stain colours. Perfect for wooden floors, doors and more.

www.wood-finishes-direct.com

My only concern is that the product is described as "alcohol" based- rather than spirit based. French polish is alcohol based. The combination of the two might result in the first coat of polish pulling the dye out as you use the "rubber".

I would recommend that you contact the company in the above link, alternatively, contact Morrells directly... https://www.morrells.co.uk/products/wood-finishes/stains-patinas-fillers/light-fast-stains/

In my limited experience, you can't always get through to Morrells when when you phone them, a good company though, and when you do, the advice is top notch.

-------- edit, you can mix their stains, potentially using tester tins.

 

[threedee]

Hm, we actually use morrells two component paints in the workshop, need to bug my boss about it. We have distributors close'ish.

On a side note, anyone tried the food colouring wood ? seen some examples on youtube with some good results.
Just waiting on my sander to arrive today to scrub some scrap pine/cedar to try.

Looked on temu for some alcohol dies, there are plenty of concentrated stuff, might give it a stab.

Looked at specialist stuff - too expensive for hobby experiments, Keda dye stuff is not really available here (and expensive).

The general idea is to yakisugi a board that is a handrail in my house, stain it green after brushing and lacquer the heck out of it. Will not be french polish as yakisugi is well textured by nature, but will see what happens.

Ideally i'd like to get my hands on some maple, as apparently it dyes and french polishes very beautifully, but at the moment will try texturing/colouring cheap wood.

 

[opps]

I don't think I sufficiently stressed the importance of not using an alcohol based stain if french polishing. Avoid any dye that says alcohol based or recommends cleaning with meths or denatured alcohol (isopropyl alcohol).

That said, it seems that you do not intend to use french polish because you plan to char the wood.

The following recommends using tung oil.

https://www.realmilkpaint.com/blog/tips/sealing-shou-sugi-ban-tung-oil/

 

[threedee]

You did. Its my mistake calling it "french polish"
I'm after very glossy finish on shousugiban/yakisugi surface, which is very textured by nature.
I might try actual french polish later on, on some figured maple maybe.

Although, could you elaborate as to why is it i shouldn't use alcohol dyeing for french polish ? By my reckoning alcohol would be long gone before finish is applied, as its volatile and all that ???

 

[GhostIntMachine]

Morrells sell a number of spirit based stains (including green)

My only concern is that the product is described as "alcohol" based- rather than spirit based. French polish is alcohol based. The combination of the two might result in the first coat of polish pulling the dye out as you use the "rubber".

Actually, French-polish is shellac dissolved in methylated spirits (methyl alcohol) which white spirits doesn't mix with overly well - you can use a few drops of white spirits on your rubber as a lubricant when finishing the top because it won't redissolve the shellac. I suspect the Morrells stuff is dissolved in ethyl alcohol

I recently refinished (de-waxed, scraped, sanded, stained and then French polished) the badly scratched table top on an oak table in the mayor's parlour of a (fairly) local town hall. Used Morrells medium oak alcohol-based stain, let dry, denibbed then French polished. Looks OK to me

 

[GhostIntMachine]

Hm, we actually use morrells two component paints in the workshop, need to bug my boss about it. We have distributors close'ish.

Possibly a 2k formulation. Requires masks, spray gear and a dry back booth, so not suitable for home application. By- products of spraying are potentially toxic (hence the masks, extraction, etc)

On a side note, anyone tried the food colouring wood ? seen some examples on youtube with some good results.

Food colouring isn't all that light fast, is it?

Looked on temu for some alcohol dies, there are plenty of concentrated stuff, might give it a stab.

Try "tasteofeast-2013" on eBay for Morrells rather than importing some Chinese crap half way across the globe , - currently £8.95 for 250ml of Morrells green, delivered. At least with Morrells you can get spec sheets

The general idea is to yakisugi a board that is a handrail in my house, stain it green after brushing and lacquer the heck out of it. Will not be french polish as yakisugi is well textured by nature, but will see what happens.

French polish isn't mirror finish naturally - to get that you need to fill the grain, scrape then apply many coats of finish. 3 coats of French polish on an open-pore timber like oak will show the grain and pores (which I presume is what you mean by "textured"). The glossiness of French polish is down to the number of coats and the skill of the polisher, but too high a gloss can be dulled down a bit by using a mild abrasive such as rottenstone. Be careful if attempting to apply stain over a lacquered or polished finish as it can end up looking very inconsistent if brushed on (spraying is best approach). Test materials first to check for compatibility, but note that a thin inter-layer of white (blonde), dewaxed French polish often allows two incompatible finishes to.be used one above the other

Ideally i'd like to get my hands on some maple, as apparently it dyes and french polishes very beautifully, but at the moment will try texturing/colouring cheap wood.

Almost any hardwood French polishes well - softwood on the other hand is generally a waste of effort TBH

You can texture softwood (i.e. accentuate the grain), especially in timbers such cedar and Douglas fir, by scorching it then raking out the charred summer growth with a wire brush, thoroughly. Scorched timber will need to be sealed thoroughly (ideally by spraying) before attempting to stain or lacquer/polish it because the black charcoal residues will "taint" any finishes, especially if applied with a brush or roller

 

[Why Not Indeed]

Food colouring isn't all that light fast, is it?

As anyone who has prepared beetroot on a wooden chopping board can tell you. Fades away surprisingly quickly.

 

[JohnD]

An antique restorer of my acquaintance told me that you can use white spirit on a rag to clean wax or greasy dirt off french-polished furniture, because it does not dissolve the shellac.

 

[slawit]

French Polisher by trade here, just came across this and thought it might be useful for all if I cleared up a few things.

Shellac mixed with meths is the solution used when ‘French Polishing’ using a rubber. The meths in shellac, which is a basic form alcohol and it will brush up any stain that is alcohol or sprit based, this is why you wouldn’t use Morrells light fast stain under shellac. It’s a shame really because Morrells light fast green will get you fairly close to the colour your after, and it can be purchased by the liter.

Personally, I would use Morrells light fast then just use a good quality gloss varnish which can be brush applied. If you really wanted to go down the French Polishing route (there are plenty of videos on Utube) then ask morrells to mix you up a Classic stain which will not brush up. (5Lts minimum order though) but I have to say French Polishing is not easy.

 

[GhostIntMachine]

An antique restorer of my acquaintance told me that you can use white spirit on a rag to clean wax or greasy dirt off french-polished furniture, because it does not dissolve the shellac.

Quite right. As I think I stated earlier, French polish (shellac) dissolves in methylated spirits (methyl alcohol) but not ethyl alcohol (e.g denatured alcohol, aka white spirits).

 

[GhostIntMachine]

So what you are saying to me is that the job I did a few weeks ago was impossible? Interesting.

In fact have used the same process a number of times over the last 20 or so years (I'm not a French polisher, but a joiner and furniture maker who nowadays specialises in building conservation work - I was taught to polish in my teens). The table I referred to above was originally made in the late 1930s, but was badly scratched and bruised. It was also faded. At some point the top had been stripped and recoated with a tinted polyurethane lacquer. The legs and rails are French polished (determined by solvent testing), so were left as is.

The top therefore needed to be scraped back and bruises steamed out before finishing could commence. Staining was using Morrells LF light oak (2 to 3 coats thinned as necessary to get an even colour matching the rails and legs) which was then left to dry thoroughly overnight before Myland button polish was applied - first coat with a brush, therafter with a rubber. Towards the end I always use a bit of white spirits to lubricate the rubber.

Very little if any of the LF redissolved onto either the brush or thre rubber. Same as always

i think that you are trying to say that French polishing Is some sort of black art. But no trade should be a black art. Like any trade it can be learned (or in my case taught by spending part of my apprenticeship in the polishing shoI'vei personally find the repair and refurbishment work required before polishing, and especially the staining component to be the most difficult. But these are not impossible for anyone to learn

 

[JohnD]

(e.g denatured alcohol, aka white spirits).

White spirit is not an alcohol, it is refined from petroleum oil