LPG & Fire Extinguisher.

[EFLImpudence]

Are cars in the U.K. that have been fitted with an LPG system required to carry a fire extinguisher and would it fail an MoT without one?

Would anyone know if the rules in Europe would be the same?


Thanks.

 

[robinbanks]

I don't believe so, if it's a private vehicle.

Interested that the focus of the post is on LPG; it's easier to ignite petrol?

 

[EFLImpudence]

I don't believe so, if it's a private vehicle.

Ok. Thanks.

Interested that the focus of the post is on LPG; it's easier to ignite petrol?

Well I know that cars with just a petrol engine do not have to have one.
I was even refused entry to a garage workshop here once "because LPG is explosive".

The reason for my enquiry is that I had an advisory on the last inspection for "Extinguisher - badly fixed" - but I don't have one.
I have had arguments with the local inspector before as he seems to make up his own rules so wanted to find out the situation with LPG and extinguishers.

 

[robinbanks]

because LPG is explosive

Because exploding petrol isn't what drives the Otto cycle at all

to your mechanic

 

[Brigadier]

"Extinguisher - badly fixed"

but I don't have one

Very badly fixed then

 

[carmanmemoranda]

The only bit in the manual that specifically covers LPG is.......

To check for leaks on gas powered vehicles, use a leak detection product conforming to the standard BS EN 14291-2004. You must follow the manufacturer’s instructions when using leak detection products.

Only fail a vehicle for missing heat shields if there’s a risk of fire with other fuel system components.

Defect	Category
(a) Fuel tank, pipe or hose: (i) insecure (ii) insecure such that there is a risk of fire	Major Dangerous
(b) Fuel system: (i) leaking, or missing or ineffective filler cap (ii) leaking excessively or a risk of fire	Major Dangerous
(c) Fuel pipe or hose: (i) chafing (ii) damaged	Minor Major
(d) Not in use
(e) Fire risk due to fuel tank shield or exhaust shield missing where fitted as original equipment	Dangerous
(f) Any part of an LPG/CNG/LNG or hydrogen system defective	Dangerous

Nothing in the manual about fire extinguishers.

If he fails, or even advises it, ask him to show you where in the test manual it is

 

[SimonH2]

LPG is one of those "here be dragons" things. There's still a lot of ignorance and misinformation going around.
Some garages may refuse them simply because they don't have the skills/knowledge to handle them safely - not, as pointed out, there's similar risks with petrol (also heavier than air, will pool in pits, and so on)

I've never heard of a requirement for a fire extingusher - certainly nothing in CoP11 when I used to dabble.

You might like to have a bit if a peruse at https://diy-lpg.co.uk though it's a long time since I last updated it.

 

[Avocet]

I don't believe there is such a requirement. However, the MOT tester is supposed to put the reference (e.g. Section 5.2.3) next to the fail item on the sheet, so it would be interesting to look that paragraph up in the online MOT inspection manual and find out what it actually says.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I have the equivalent for Portugal

The advisory given was 7.2.6. 'Extinguisher - Badly fixed' but I don't even have an extinguisher.
You will note that section 7.2 is headed 'Extinguisher (where mandatory)'.

I can only find on-line that extinguishers are not mandatory in cars in Portugal.

Obviously I shall have to speak to the inspector about it but just wanted to make sure I was not missing anything and wondered about the LPG - the only thing out of the ordinary about the situation.
Having said that, the vehicle is a 6/7 seat Toyota Previa - presumably that doesn't make any difference either as it is all but thirty years old and had a few MoTs without an extinguisher including three with the LPG.

 

[Avocet]

I have the equivalent for Portugal

View attachment 381347

The advisory given was 7.2.6. 'Extinguisher - Badly fixed' but I don't even have an extinguisher.
You will note that section 7.2 is headed 'Extinguisher (where mandatory)'.

I can only find on-line that extinguishers are not mandatory in cars in Portugal.

Obviously I shall have to speak to the inspector about it but just wanted to make sure I was not missing anything and wondered about the LPG - the only thing out of the ordinary about the situation.
Having said that, the vehicle is a 6/7 seat Toyota Previa - presumably that doesn't make any difference either as it is all but thirty years old and had a few MoTs without an extinguisher including three with the LPG.

Ah, I'd forgotten you weren't in the UK! I guess Portuguese national requirements might be different then? I am fairly certain the "M, N, O" bit refers to the EU vehicle category (M are passenger vehicles, N are goods vehicles and O are trailers). The Previa will be category M1. You could try asking locally if M1 vehicles with LPG conversions are legally required to be fitted with fire extinguishers, I guess?

To be honest, with LPG being a gas, I'm not really sure how a fire extinguisher would work in any case? Online advice appears to be NOT to try tackling an LPG cylinder fire with an extinguisher?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Didn't realise you were Portugal either. I've only got access to, and understand the UK MOT regs, but the same principal applies. He must quote the reference to why he fails, or advises any issue. But can't comment about whether 1 is required in Portugal, or Spain.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes, thanks.

I only wanted to know the situation in the U.K. for comparison.

Obviously very little about my situation makes sense - especially with my previous experience of the inspector.

 

[EFLImpudence]

What would happen in the U.K. if it happened there?

An advisory which applied to something the vehicle does not have and very well might not need to have.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

What would happen in the U.K. if it happened there?

An advisory which applied to something the vehicle does not have and very well might not need to have.

Difficult to answer that exactly.

For example, a car in UK does not need a fire extinguisher, there is nothing in the manual to test it against, and fail it or advise it. But if it was mounted poorly for example so that it might detach in an accident and potentially strike the driver or a passenger I could write out my own advisory. Would still be a pass, but with an advise for poorly mounted.

If it was securely mounted and I put an advisory against it, you could (and probably should) ask me why I have done so, and then ask for an appeal form on the grounds that it is not a testable item, and is secure anyway.

 

[Avocet]

What would happen in the U.K. if it happened there?

An advisory which applied to something the vehicle does not have and very well might not need to have.

And in the UK, if your car fails and you don't think it should have done, there is an official process by which you can appeal against the MOT tester's decision.