Silly things

[pete01]

Not so much silly but today I as removing some old sockets and one of them was a 4 pin 16 amp blue commando type wired with 3 phases and marked 240v on the front.

Never seen one before, has anyone else?

I'll get a picture tomorrow

 

[SUNRAY]

Not so much silly but today I as removing some old sockets and one of them was a 4 pin 16 amp blue commando type wired with 3 phases and marked 240v on the front.

Never seen one before, has anyone else?

I'll get a picture tomorrow

Yep certainly have although strictly speaking red versions should be used.

 

[plugwash]

Not so much silly but today I as removing some old sockets and one of them was a 4 pin 16 amp blue commando type wired with 3 phases and marked 240v on the front.

The intended use of such connectors is for three phase supplies that have ~230V between phases.

If it was wired to a 230V/400V supply then I guess whoever installed it misunderstood what the voltage rating on a commando socket represents.

Never seen one before, has anyone else?

I've seen a 4 pin blue commando in a University lab before, but I don't know if it was wired to an appropriate supply or if it was being abused in some way.

I've also seen them in videos from other countries.

I believe they are also seen on VFDs with single phase input and three phase output sometimes.

 

[pete01]

Thanks chaps, just had a quick search and you can get hold of them pretty easily

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/615286-16a-3p-n-230v-am-top-plug-ip44

 

[morqthana]

Peak may be 7 kW, but unlikely to run on peak for long, I used a Lidi induction hob in my mothers house, as the halogen hob was so slow, the default with the induction was 1 kW, it would turn up to 2 kW, but in the main we turned it down.

IME an induction (burner? zone? ring?) at 2kW is good for 3 things.

1. Bringing a pan of cold water to a boil
2. Maintaining water at an insanely furious boil
3. Preparing the dish known as sticknburn

 

[AdrianUK]

Yep certainly have although strictly speaking red versions should be used.

Well not necessarily. The BS4343 standard on which these connectors are based defined several voltage bands which were designated different colours and also differentiated by having the earth pin at a different position based on the clock. Each voltage band was also available in 2 pole, 3 pole, 4 pole & 5 pole variants as well as 16A, 32A, 63A & 125A ratings. The most common ones we see here in the UK are '6h' (ie. earth pin at the bottom) Yellow, Blue & Red, with Yellow used for 110V, Blue for 230V single phase & red for 400V three phase.

The colour band denotes the maximum voltage present in the connector, so, a 208/120V supply (ie. The US standard of 120V L-N & 208V L-L) would, correctly, use a Blue 5 pole 9h connector for a 3P+N+E supply. We use exactly this arrangement in our factory & I've also seen it used in several UK Universities. Its thrown the odd contract sparky who assumed that the socket in-front of him was a 'standard' 3P 32A 230V socket.....

 

[SUNRAY]

Well not necessarily. The BS4343 standard on which these connectors are based defined several voltage bands which were designated different colours and also differentiated by having the earth pin at a different position based on the clock. Each voltage band was also available in 2 pole, 3 pole, 4 pole & 5 pole variants as well as 16A, 32A, 63A & 125A ratings. The most common ones we see here in the UK are '6h' (ie. earth pin at the bottom) Yellow, Blue & Red, with Yellow used for 110V, Blue for 230V single phase & red for 400V three phase.

The colour band denotes the maximum voltage present in the connector, so, a 208/120V supply (ie. The US standard of 120V L-N & 208V L-L) would, correctly, use a Blue 5 pole 9h connector for a 3P+N+E supply. We use exactly this arrangement in our factory & I've also seen it used in several UK Universities. Its thrown the odd contract sparky who assumed that the socket in-front of him was a 'standard' 3P 32A 230V socket.....

Mmm slight confusion there, should never see a 6h yellow (see below) or 3 pole red.

In my experience (which I don't claim to be the difinitive situation) in the early days most of the connectors had adjustable inserts so the earth pin could be in any of the 12h positions. It was quite normal to have equipment racks plugged into dedicated sockets and the first in the suite would commonly be 1h and increase by 1 along the suite.

I'm not sure about this point but I believe theses originated in naval situations and coming ashore (so to speak) there was initially some confusion where the major key should be and as such some confusion where 12h was. I know we now have 12h at the hinge and the major key opposite so that is fixed.

Moving on they settled on some 'standard' layout's, for example:
All yellow 4h (except I've dealt with some 5 pole at 6h).
Blue 3 pole connectors 6h but 9h for red, 4h for yellow.
Blue 4 or 5 pole 9h (upper limit of 250V so should not used for UK 3ph)
Red 4 or 5 pole seem to have standardised at 6h but 3h or 11h for non 50Hz (VSD) or over 420V (lots of confusion exists on these so tend to stick to 6h)

The colour does denote the voltage bands for use and that also gets very confusing, this is from memory so please excuse me if there are errors or updates. The voltages are designated in fairly narrow bands with gaps to the next colour, something like Purple = <25V, white = 40-70V, Yellow= 100-130V, blue = 200-250V, red = 300-460V, black = 500-1000V. There has always been confusion which to use for a voltage in between.

Current rating are up to 800A and pin configurations up to 7.

 

[Sureitsoff?]

Mmm slight confusion there, should never see a 6h yellow (see below) or 3 pole red.

In my experience (which I don't claim to be the difinitive situation) in the early days most of the connectors had adjustable inserts so the earth pin could be in any of the 12h positions. It was quite normal to have equipment racks plugged into dedicated sockets and the first in the suite would commonly be 1h and increase by 1 along the suite.

I'm not sure about this point but I believe theses originated in naval situations and coming ashore (so to speak) there was initially some confusion where the major key should be and as such some confusion where 12h was. I know we now have 12h at the hinge and the major key opposite so that is fixed.

Moving on they settled on some 'standard' layout's, for example:
All yellow 4h (except I've dealt with some 5 pole at 6h).
Blue 3 pole connectors 6h but 9h for red, 4h for yellow.
Blue 4 or 5 pole 9h (upper limit of 250V so should not used for UK 3ph)
Red 4 or 5 pole seem to have standardised at 6h but 3h or 11h for non 50Hz (VSD) or over 420V (lots of confusion exists on these so tend to stick to 6h)

The colour does denote the voltage bands for use and that also gets very confusing, this is from memory so please excuse me if there are errors or updates. The voltages are designated in fairly narrow bands with gaps to the next colour, something like Purple = <25V, white = 40-70V, Yellow= 100-130V, blue = 200-250V, red = 300-460V, black = 500-1000V. There has always been confusion which to use for a voltage in between.

Current rating are up to 800A and pin configurations up to 7.

Oh sod it wheres my croc clips.................

 

[SUNRAY]

Oh sod it wheres my croc clips.................

Crock clips?????

wotz wong wivv selotape n matches

 

[333rocky333]

Mmm slight confusion there, should never see a 6h yellow (see below) or 3 pole red.

In my experience (which I don't claim to be the difinitive situation) in the early days most of the connectors had adjustable inserts so the earth pin could be in any of the 12h positions. It was quite normal to have equipment racks plugged into dedicated sockets and the first in the suite would commonly be 1h and increase by 1 along the suite.

I'm not sure about this point but I believe theses originated in naval situations and coming ashore (so to speak) there was initially some confusion where the major key should be and as such some confusion where 12h was. I know we now have 12h at the hinge and the major key opposite so that is fixed.

Moving on they settled on some 'standard' layout's, for example:
All yellow 4h (except I've dealt with some 5 pole at 6h).
Blue 3 pole connectors 6h but 9h for red, 4h for yellow.
Blue 4 or 5 pole 9h (upper limit of 250V so should not used for UK 3ph)
Red 4 or 5 pole seem to have standardised at 6h but 3h or 11h for non 50Hz (VSD) or over 420V (lots of confusion exists on these so tend to stick to 6h)

The colour does denote the voltage bands for use and that also gets very confusing, this is from memory so please excuse me if there are errors or updates. The voltages are designated in fairly narrow bands with gaps to the next colour, something like Purple = <25V, white = 40-70V, Yellow= 100-130V, blue = 200-250V, red = 300-460V, black = 500-1000V. There has always been confusion which to use for a voltage in between.

Current rating are up to 800A and pin configurations up to 7.

Theres also a very rarely used green one

 

[SUNRAY]

Theres also a very rarely used green one

I didn't think it was worth mentioning things the average British person wouldn't meet.

Yep green is for higher frequency services above ELV such as shipping and aviation where it tends to be 400Hz, there are 2 different 'h' positions for 2 different frequency ranges, something like <300Hz and >300Hz.

And in series 2 there are:
Another white for ELV DC
Grey specifically for single phase 275V from the USA 3 phase services.
Orange 4 pole for the USA standard 2 phase or split phase 120/240V service.

I can't remember the earth position but none of the above are compatible with any others from series 1...

Except of course Aliexpress sell 3ph distros containing yellow, green and red 16A sockets. I'm not even going to make a guess but I bet it don't conform here.

 

[ericmark]

So a yellow 3 pin socket should have the pins marked L1, L2, and E, and 4 pin L1, L2, L3 and E, and the cable will not have a blue core. I can't think where I would use yellow cable with a blue core? Yet most yellow cable seems to have a blue core, why?

 

[morqthana]

I've got an extension lead with yellow cable. It's a good colour for showing up against grass. Not as good as orange, but not bad.

 

[pete01]

So a yellow 3 pin socket should have the pins marked L1, L2, and E, and 4 pin L1, L2, L3 and E, and the cable will not have a blue core. I can't think where I would use yellow cable with a blue core? Yet most yellow cable seems to have a blue core, why?

Would you prefer ,brown, brown, green and yellow inside yellow flex?

 

[plugwash]

Mmm slight confusion there, should never see a ....... 3 pole red.

Afaict a three pin red would be a perfectly legitimate way to connect a 400V single phase load, and a 4 pin red would be a perfectly legitimate way to connect a three phase load that did not need a neutral.