Minority Report Law?

[motorbiking]

New criminal offence to target violence-obsessed suspects before they attack

The law will be tightened so police can stop those without a clear ideology earlier, says the home secretary.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Justin Passing]

That should catch a few fantasists.

 

[Deluks]

What if they were going to change their mind before doing it?

 

[diy_fun_uk]

'Terror suspects who take steps towards an attack can be jailed for life, even if their plans are not fully formed.'

Does this mean life ... or 15 years and out in 7?

 

[MNW67]

What if they were going to change their mind before doing it?

Would you apply that equally to those preparing a terror attack.

 

[Deluks]

Would you apply that equally to those preparing a terror attack.

Well they shouldn't get the same sentence as if they had carried out the attack.
Otherwise they've got no incentive to rethink their plans.

 

[MNW67]

Well they shouldn't get the same sentence as if they had carried out the attack.
Otherwise they've got no incentive to rethink their plans.

That makes sense. I don't know how it has been applied in practice.

 

[motorbiking]

Well they shouldn't get the same sentence as if they had carried out the attack.
Otherwise they've got no incentive to rethink their plans.

We already have conspiracy offences, I’m not sure what “loop hole”. They are trying to close.

 

[MNW67]

We already have conspiracy offences, I’m not sure what “loop hole”. They are trying to close.

I don't have much interest in criminal law, so my questions might be pretty basic. Did we need specific offences for planned terrorism. Would the existing conspiracy offences have been good enough.

 

[motorbiking]

I don't have much interest in criminal law, so my questions might be pretty basic. Did we need specific offences for planned terrorism. Would the existing conspiracy offences have been good enough.

I would suggest we do.

Attempting and failing. Carries the same sentence. E.g. attempted murder. Conspiring and grooming others to also carry big sentences.

I’m not comfortable with the idea that someone can go to a degree of fantasy planning and get life.

 

[noseall]

Would the existing conspiracy offences have been good enough.

Probably not robust enough to be able to stand up to scrutiny regards lone wolf nutters.

 

[IT Minion]

I would suggest we do.

Attempting and failing. Carries the same sentence. E.g. attempted murder. Conspiring and grooming others to also carry big sentences.

I’m not comfortable with the idea that someone can go to a degree of fantasy planning and get life.

We already go this if the person has ISIS material or far right content. Isn't this just leveling that out?

 

[Justin Passing]

Attempting and failing. Carries the same sentence. E.g. attempted murder.

I asked AI.
In the uk the penalty may be the same, I was surprised. But in the US they're treated differently, success is worse.
But planning and attempting are altogether different. You can never ultimately plan that a person intends to go through with it.
Even if they've started to (say) get exposive materials together or bought a baseball bat.
They might be wondering what if...

Explosive laterials -
weedkiller and sugar
fertilizer and diesel fuel
Hair and nail treatment products
An old boiler and a camping stove.
Bangs are fun!

AI is fun - you can ask it anything andit says it doesn't "remember".

Is bragging with mates an offence?
I've dismantled a firework to see how it worked. Book me Danno Murder 1?

This proposed law could be a deterrent but the applicability would be tiny. Much wisdom needed case by case.

 

[MNW67]

I asked AI.
In the uk the penalty may be the same, I was surprised.

I just did a Google AI. Apparently, the penalties are not exactly the same.

AI Overview

In the UK, attempted murder carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment, but it's not a mandatory sentence like murder. The actual sentence can vary depending on the severity of the crime, ranging from a minimum of 3 years to life imprisonment. Factors like the level of planning, use of a weapon, and harm caused to the victim influence the sentence.

One of the few points I remember about criminal law is that the mens rea for attempted murder is intention to kill, whereas the mens rea for murder is either intention to kill or intention to cause GBH.

 

[blup]

Typical knee jerk law will cover a specific situation and potentially catch many other unforeseen ones, like the threads on here that go on about ukrane and the Middle East. Or MAGA obsessed conspiracy theorists.