USA tariffs now at the levels which fuelled the big depression
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I'm sure Starmer and Old Labour will help with a new big depression. Consumer spending is slowing, inflation rising, unemployment rising, borrowing rising. They've just got to go for the stock market crash and they're there.
You're right about Starmer.
Trump's tariffs are having a negative effect. He's just sacked a civil servant responsible for labour numbers etc, after a shocked Wall Street received the bad news.
He's not happy. He'll no doubt replace her with a sycophantic liar.
I was thinking the Rest of the World could set up a parallel World Trade Orgsnisation, founded on the object of free trade and zero tariffs.
We could call it the RoWTO. Rules to be set by majority vote of the members. With a court to judge disputes.
USA can only apply to join if they agree to conform to its rules. Bit like the EU.
We could call it the RoWTO. Rules to be set by majority vote of the members. With a court to judge disputes.
USA can only apply to join if they agree to conform to its rules. Bit like the EU.
Another illustration of the slide into autocracy. This is what third world dictators do.
I'm not sure that applies here, everyone who isn't a Trump fan agrees it was going to tank the US and world economy.
Strange watched an interview earlier top guy from morgan stanley back tracking and saying the tariffs are now working in the US favour and a creating jobs and $$$$. A journalist having a go a trump for not bringing them in during his last term with trump answering back that he was too busy dealing with lunatics like him .
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There are opinions in every direction..
The USA economy (mis)management is one thing. Tariffs a bit, but maybe not so much.
Yes it would be "nice" for the USA to get into line with the ROW but which ROW!?
USA has been buying with money they dont have and running up their national debt for so long we've all just got used to it.
Trumps actions should help, to keep more USD $ in the USA, instead of sending them abroad to pay other countries' wages.
We all(?) imagine hordes of Chinese workers on what we think of as very low pay, making stuff for the West. It was that way last I was there. The End of Shift horn would go off, and within 10 minutes you couldn't move for bicycles filling all the nearby streets. It changed.
Bloomberg showed a current Chinese factory making appliances of some sort, like washing machines. No workers. One person watching in case of problems. They're way ahead of US factories.
I saw an interview with a long-time head of Renault (Ghosn), who make cars all over the world. Asked which country make Renaults' best? China.
The Stock Market's reaction to the recent Trump announcements after it realised TACO, has been a collective "wha'ever". Germany cared because of cars, Ireland for drugs, Canada for eveyfknthing etc but the SPY (S&P 500) still kept hitting new highs.
Tariffs are somewhat comparable with VAT, but they're different. "Many countries around the world implement a value-added tax (VAT) system similar to the EU's, including Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and several countries in Asia and Africa. "
If you bring something from the USA into the EU, there will now be a 15% tariff but also 20% VAT.
On £100 at import, the 15% and 20% are paid. Approx £35. But the VAT grows. As the good moves through the chain of production or simply resale, more is added. so if the total profits on the good spread through the chain, are say £90 , which the end user ends up paying, there's another 20% on the £90, another £18. All that tax goes to the importing government.
If the USA imports, 15% tariff is paid, end of story. There are many other facets ifs and buts of course, some more relevant than others.
Treasury incomes : UK
USA doesn't work that way - income is from
That consumption tax, VAT 20% is missing, it's largely on income tax instead,
so sure, USA needs big tariffs, one could say.
Back to the stockmarket and depressions, there are several indicators showing how a stock market total valuation relates to the GDP of its host country. You can google for them but the buffet indicator is one. The theory goes that when the graph goes above the smooth underlying trend curve, watch out. We're at 180 now.
Bottom lilne, we're due another crunch.
Almost anything can trigger those, and Trump is doing enough whacky things .
Any bad hard data number could do it.
So far in the last couple of days the SPY is down about 4%. We had a 20% dip in April and recovered. There was no "USA in trouble" signal then like the Nonfarm Jobs numbers just reported.
He's claiming the number is rigged and has shot the messenger like the tit he is. Republicans are scoffing at him.
If there's any further undermining of the Great Big Buffoon's Beautiful Bill, that could do a lot.
You never know.
The USA economy (mis)management is one thing. Tariffs a bit, but maybe not so much.
Yes it would be "nice" for the USA to get into line with the ROW but which ROW!?
USA has been buying with money they dont have and running up their national debt for so long we've all just got used to it.
Trumps actions should help, to keep more USD $ in the USA, instead of sending them abroad to pay other countries' wages.
We all(?) imagine hordes of Chinese workers on what we think of as very low pay, making stuff for the West. It was that way last I was there. The End of Shift horn would go off, and within 10 minutes you couldn't move for bicycles filling all the nearby streets. It changed.
Bloomberg showed a current Chinese factory making appliances of some sort, like washing machines. No workers. One person watching in case of problems. They're way ahead of US factories.
I saw an interview with a long-time head of Renault (Ghosn), who make cars all over the world. Asked which country make Renaults' best? China.
The Stock Market's reaction to the recent Trump announcements after it realised TACO, has been a collective "wha'ever". Germany cared because of cars, Ireland for drugs, Canada for eveyfknthing etc but the SPY (S&P 500) still kept hitting new highs.
Tariffs are somewhat comparable with VAT, but they're different. "Many countries around the world implement a value-added tax (VAT) system similar to the EU's, including Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and several countries in Asia and Africa. "
If you bring something from the USA into the EU, there will now be a 15% tariff but also 20% VAT.
On £100 at import, the 15% and 20% are paid. Approx £35. But the VAT grows. As the good moves through the chain of production or simply resale, more is added. so if the total profits on the good spread through the chain, are say £90 , which the end user ends up paying, there's another 20% on the £90, another £18. All that tax goes to the importing government.
If the USA imports, 15% tariff is paid, end of story. There are many other facets ifs and buts of course, some more relevant than others.
Treasury incomes : UK
| Income Tax | £301 billion | 36% |
| National Insurance Contributions | £172.5 billion | 20% |
| Value Added Tax (VAT) | £170.6 billion | 20% |
| Corporation Tax | £91.6 billion | 11% |
| Other Taxes | £103.3 billion | 13% |
USA doesn't work that way - income is from
| Individual Income Taxes | 54% |
| Payroll Taxes (Social Security, Medicare) | 30% |
| Corporate Income Taxes | 9% |
| Excise Taxes | 1.8% |
| Estate and Gift Taxes | 1% |
| Other Sources (customs duties, fees) | 5% |
That consumption tax, VAT 20% is missing, it's largely on income tax instead,
so sure, USA needs big tariffs, one could say.
Back to the stockmarket and depressions, there are several indicators showing how a stock market total valuation relates to the GDP of its host country. You can google for them but the buffet indicator is one. The theory goes that when the graph goes above the smooth underlying trend curve, watch out. We're at 180 now.
Bottom lilne, we're due another crunch.
Almost anything can trigger those, and Trump is doing enough whacky things .
Any bad hard data number could do it.
So far in the last couple of days the SPY is down about 4%. We had a 20% dip in April and recovered. There was no "USA in trouble" signal then like the Nonfarm Jobs numbers just reported.
He's claiming the number is rigged and has shot the messenger like the tit he is. Republicans are scoffing at him.
If there's any further undermining of the Great Big Buffoon's Beautiful Bill, that could do a lot.
You never know.
I am sorry you are so uninformed.
It seems you are lying
a podcast by Morgan Stanley on 1st Aug 2025 says Tariffs are inflationary and a regressive tax on consumer spending
