Electric towel rail in Zone 1.

[Nemo2000]

There is an electric towel rail in my bathroom which I intend to replace by a new one when I refurbish the bathroom in due course. The towel rail is located in Zone 1 above the non-tap end of the bath (for the simple reason that is no room anywhere else in the small bathroom for it) so I shall be ensuring that I purchase one which is rated at least IPX4 if not IPX5 (I've found a couple so far).

The existing towel rail is controlled by a switched fused spur unit sited outside of the bath room (on the landing), so OK there. However the fly-lead from the t/rail goes into a 'flex outlet' plate in the wall in Zone 1, where it is connected to 2.5mm T&E which goes up through the partition wall to the outlet of the FSU. I get conflicting advice as to whether this is acceptable, or whether the flex output counts as a 'junction box' and therefore ought not to be in Zone 1.

If the latter, and the fly-lead supplied with the new rail is long enough, then I could simply run the lead through the hole in the flex outlet face-plate (and use the cable clamp to secure it) and run it all the way to the FSU, but in that case I'm not sure that I can find a new t/rail that has the fly-lead exit on the required side and a long enough lead.

Any thoughts please?

 

[EFLImpudence]

The existing towel rail is controlled by a switched fused spur unit sited outside of the bath room (on the landing), so OK there. However the fly-lead from the t/rail goes into a 'flex outlet' plate in the wall in Zone 1, where it is connected to 2.5mm T&E which goes up through the partition wall to the outlet of the FSU. I get conflicting advice as to whether this is acceptable, or whether the flex output counts as a 'junction box' and therefore ought not to be in Zone 1.

It should be stated by the manufacturer as 'suitable for the environment' and so, as it won't be, strictly speaking not allowed.

If the latter, and the fly-lead supplied with the new rail is long enough, then I could simply run the lead through the hole in the flex outlet face-plate (and use the cable clamp to secure it) and run it all the way to the FSU,

Yes, good idea.

but in that case I'm not sure that I can find a new t/rail that has the fly-lead exit on the required side and a long enough lead.

Are they not reversible?

 

[JohnW2]

.... or whether the flex output counts as a 'junction box' and therefore ought not to be in Zone 1.

Do the regs actually say that a junction box (with inaccessible contents) is not allowed in Zone 1? "Current-using-equipment" and switches certainly aren't allowed, but I'm not convinced that I've seen anything which would outlaw JBs (or 'flex outlet plates')

 

[Nemo2000]

Do the regs actually say that a junction box (with inaccessible contents) is not allowed in Zone 1? "Current-using-equipment" and switches certainly aren't allowed, but I'm not convinced that I've seen anything which would outlaw JBs (or 'flex outlet plates')

I'm not sure, but I've come across it in some online searches about Zone 1 restrictions.

As regards reversible connections, some rails appear to be offer that facility, but others don't.

I suspect that the existing rail was installed originally with a 'flex outlet' simply because that was the common way of making a 'neat job' (in the absence of going into the front of a FSU) and certainly it looks better than simply poking the fly-lead through a hole in the wall !

I did wonder about using some form of IP55 inline connector, of the sort often used for outdoor weatherproof wiring, to connect the fly-lead to the T&E inside the back-box of the flex-outlet and just using the face-plate but not the inbuilt terminals ??

 

[JohnW2]

I'm not sure, but I've come across it in some online searches about Zone 1 restrictions.

If you want to know what the regulations actually are, I suggest you look at them (i.e. BS7671), and forget about 'online searches' (which not uncommonly provide incorrect information!).

I may have missed, or forgotten, it but, as I said, off the top of my head I do not recall anything in the actual regs which explicitly precludes an 'enclosed' JB in Zone 1. I don't have the regs to hand but, if I remember, I'll have a look later.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Do the regs actually say that a junction box (with inaccessible contents) is not allowed in Zone 1? "Current-using-equipment" and switches certainly aren't allowed, but I'm not convinced that I've seen anything which would outlaw JBs (or 'flex outlet plates')

It should be stated by the manufacturer as 'suitable for the environment' and so, as it won't be, strictly speaking not allowed.

 

[JohnW2]

You repeated your previous statement, namely ....

It should be stated by the manufacturer as 'suitable for the environment' and so, as it won't be, strictly speaking not allowed.

I'm only aware of that applying to 'current-using-equipment', which clearly would not include a JB. As I said,I don't have access to the regs at present, so perhaps you can tell us what reg would make your statement applicable to a JB?

 

[Nemo2000]

You repeated your previous statement, namely ....


I'm only aware of that applying to 'current-using-equipment', which clearly would not include a JB. As I said,I don't have access to the regs at present, so perhaps you can tell us what reg would make your statement applicable to a JB?

Actually, I did not understand that reference either

If the equipment is rated as (say) IPX5 or IP55 then surely it is 'suitable for the environment' - in this case Zone 1 - by that fact. Whether that equipment is then connected to a live supply by a means that is NOT suitable for use in Zone 1 is surely a different matter that does not alter the fundamental suitability of the equipment itself, only the way in which it is installed/used ?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Maybe it is more specific than I thought.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Actually, I did not understand that reference either

If the equipment is rated as (say) IPX5 or IP55 then surely it is 'suitable for the environment'

Is your FCU or flex outlet rated for that?

 

[Nemo2000]

Is your FCU or flex outlet rated for that?

The FCU is outside of the bathroom, as I explained above, so I'm not sure its IP rating is relevant. As far as I can tell the flex outlet is just the 'normal' type used elsewhere in the house (eg for an immersion heater) so I doubt that it would have a suitable IP rating, which is why I'm thinking of reusing it just as a 'wire way' to pass the fly-lead through to the FCU.

It's the fact the fly-lead on whatever new towel-rail I get may not be long enough that gives me concern as I might have to (say) move the FCU and/or flex outlet, in which case I would need to do that before I redecorate and tile the walls etc etc, but I don't want to go to all that hastle is there is an easier alternative such a lengthening the fly-lead somehow in a way that would IP compliant.

 

[EFLImpudence]

The FCU is outside of the bathroom, as I explained above, so I'm not sure its IP rating is relevant.

It is not.

As far as I can tell the flex outlet is just the 'normal' type used elsewhere in the house (eg for an immersion heater) so I doubt that it would have a suitable IP rating, which is why I'm thinking of reusing it just as a 'wire way' to pass the fly-lead through to the FCU.

As I said; it won't have - and then good idea.

 

[Nemo2000]

Meanwhile, on another aspect of the same job....

The existing towel rail has a specific bonding terminal built into its metalwork (separate from the earth terminal for the fly-lead) and currently this is bonded to the pipework under the bath, which in turn is bonded to the MET at the meter board. None of the new towel rails that I have looked at so far seem to have this facility, not can I find any reference to bonding in downloadable installation manuals.

So is bonding of such equipment no longer required and if so then I'm curious as to why? Presumably I can just disconnect the bonding wire at the towel rail and coil it up out of the way under the bath?

 

[JohnW2]

Actually, I did not understand that reference either

I'm glad that I'm not alone.

If the equipment is rated as (say) IPX5 or IP55 then surely it is 'suitable for the environment' - in this case Zone 1 - by that fact.

One would think/hope so but I think EFLI was probably making the almost 'bureaucratic' point that, probably 'to protect their backsides', a manufacturer, if asked, probably would never 'say' that any product (other than a shower, for which that have little choice!) was "suitable for use in Zone 1"

 

[flameport]

So is bonding of such equipment no longer required

Not required and hasn't been for decades, and even when it was back in the 1980s, the regulations for doing so were based on entirely wrong information.