Replacing ceiling light, confused by wiring

[wanderlywagon]

I purchased a new ceiling light on Amazon. It's metallic class 2 and has connections for live and neutral. Pic below.

The ceiling wires are all coloured black, I guess they must be old enough!

There 2 separate connectors. One (left of picture) to which a single ceiling wire is connected, and the neutral wire on the existing rose connected to this. The other (right of picture) has 2 ceiling wires connected, and the live wire on the existing rose connected to this.

Can I assume that both wires on the right of the picture are live? How do I connect both of those to the single live connection point on the new lights junction box?

 

[ETAF]

i would say the right connector with 2 wires are neutral and the one on the left is a switched live

here is an example of how the wiring is

Looped Ceiling Rose

Description and illustration of a looped ceiling rose

flameport.com

did it have a ceiling rose before - the cable in the ceiling th e3 reds is that just to a choc block connector ?
earth sleeving

 

[EFLImpudence]

The two black wires together will be the Neutrals.
The single black wire will be the (switched)Line(live).

The three red wires are the Line(live) loop which must remain connected together but to nothing else.
The three Earth wires must be connected together but to nothing else.

Only the black wires should enter your new light fitting which means that you should have an enclosure in the ceiling with only the black wires then connected to the light.

Something like this:

Ashley J501 16A Downlighter Junction Box | Hager (J501)

 

[endecotp]

In your first photo, the cable entering the connection box on the right is not secured properly. The cable grip should grip the outer sheath of the cable, not just the inner cores.

In your second photo, the earth wires seem to perhaps only be twisted together. That’s not acceptable; you need to use a terminal of some sort. (Maybe re-use one of the old terminals?)

I can’t see how the red wires are joined - are they just twisted together as well?

Does the bit of tape say “live” on the left black wire?

Ideally you should sleeve the earth wires green/yellow and sleeve the “live” black wire in brown.

Can I assume that both wires on the right of the picture are live?

No, they are neutral.

How do I connect both of those to the single [neutral] connection point on the new lights junction box?

Put both wires in the same hole.

 

[flameport]

It's metallic class 2

To install as intended by the manufacturer, it requires a 2 core flex from the ceiling which goes into that tiny little box. No single insulated wires outside of it and no other connections there either.
As reality is unrelated to manufacturers desires, there are two options:

Install a junction box above the ceiling, or cut a hole in the ceiling so it can be pushed through from below. Put all of the existing wiring into it with new connectors, including those red wires that are currently shoved into the plaster and the earth wires which don't look to have any connector on them. Add a short length of 2 core flex from the new box and connect that to the new light.

Convert the fitting to Class I by connecting an earth wire(s) to the metal part(s). Make all of the connections so that they are enclosed by the fitting when it's fixed to the ceiling. New connectors required for all of the wires. The tiny plastic box supplied goes in the bin.

 

[wanderlywagon]

Here is a pic of the old light connected. The blue wire on the rose is connected to the connector with the single ceiling wire. The brown wire on the rose is connected to the connector with 2 ceiling wires.




I'm more confused now

 

[EFLImpudence]

The blue wire on the rose is connected to the connector with the single ceiling wire. The brown wire on the rose is connected to the connector with 2 ceiling wires.

Wrong way round.

 

[endecotp]

Here is a pic of the old light connected. The blue wire on the rose is connected to the connector with the single ceiling wire. The brown wire on the rose is connected to the connector with 2 ceiling wires.

Done by the same person who just twisted the earth wires together. Assume everything is wrong.

Might be wise to inspect the whole property looking especially for missing earths. Get a cheapo socket tester.

Edit: I see there is no bit of tape saying “live” in the latest photo??

 

[wanderlywagon]

If they're the wrong way around, they've been like that since before I moved in. I live here a few years... Yikes

I think I'll call an electrician to have a look at it

 

[ETAF]

I think I'll call an electrician to have a look at it

make sure, when you do, you get someone highly recommended to you
a lot of EICR scams around - where they condem the installation for wrong reasons as NOT up to current regs , and then want a lot of money to put right - things that are OK- so many of these scams on this site and many other forums

post a picture of consumer unit here

 

[EFLImpudence]

If they're the wrong way around, they've been like that since before I moved in. I live here a few years... Yikes

It doesn't really matter.

 

[wanderlywagon]

It doesn't really matter.

Would it not present an electrocution risk?

 

[EFLImpudence]

No.

 

[pete01]

Would it not present an electrocution risk?

You can put a bulb in any way.

Even if it's a screw bulb the new fittings can be wired either way.

 

[ETAF]

isnt it good practice to wire the screw bulb holder so that live is at the bottom center ?