Wiring in a ceiling rose

[Jeremya]

Have been trying to connect a ceiling rose and light pendant to existing wiring in the ceiling. The cable from the ceiling has green, black and red wires. The green is connected to the earth on the ceiling rose, the black is connected to the live on the ceiling rose amd the red is connected to the loop in the rose. The light pendant has a blue and brown wire. The blue wire is connected to the N on the rose and the brown wire is connected to the L on the rose.

With the above connections the light does not work. The light switch is a double dimmer switch which controls the wall lights and the ceiling light.

Any clues? Have I wired up the ceiling rose incorrectly?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

...Any clues? Have I wired up the ceiling rose incorrectly?

Sounds like you might have. I can't quite work out from your description what you are trying to achieve, and what you have done so far.

Are you fitting a rose in a brand new place, or was there something there before? If the latter, what was it, and how was it wired up? What's your reason for connecting a black wire to a live terminal?

In total, ignoring the light pendant, how many individual wires do you have to play with? You imply 3, which either means that it's the end rose for a loop system, in which case you will also need to have wires running to and from a switch, or you have a junction box system, and these wires are the switched supply.

LOOP SYSTEM:

(there would be no cable to the next rose if this is the last one)

JUNCTION BOX SYSTEM:

Also - not related to this problem, you said that your earth conductor is green, not green/yellow. Is it sleeved, or does the cable have a fully insulated earth wire? What sort of cable is it?

 

[supersparks]

Also - not related to this problem, you said that your earth conductor is green, not green/yellow. Is it sleeved, or does the cable have a fully insulated earth wire? What sort of cable is it?

The old sleving was just green until they changed the colours

AR

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The old sleving was just green until they changed the colours

Yup - and that was quite some time ago.

Just checking - his wiring might only be 28 years old, but..

 

[Millennium_Boy]

If wiring is that old, it may may need testing and inspection by a qualified electrician, especially if the conductors are tinned three strand type (3/.029), as it a sign of potentially deadly obsolete wiring in the home.
If the insulation has decayed at all, it must be rewired in its entirety.

 

[supersparks]

If wiring is that old, it may may need testing and inspection by a qualified electrician, especially if the conductors are tinned three strand type (3/.029), as it a sign of potentially deadly obsolete wiring in the home.
If the insulation has decayed at all, it must be rewired in its entirety.

Wey hey!!! he didnet say NICEIC!!!!
and most pvc cable wont have detiriorated enough yet to be labled as 'deadly'

AR

 

[Jeremya]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

The wire coming through the ceiling is three core with white outer sheath.
The the wires are red, black and green - the green one does not have green and yellow earth sheathing on it but is dark green in colour. Is this type of cable now out of date and should it be replaced?

What I am trying to acheive is to connect a ceiling rose to these wires so that the ceiling light works.

From the comments I am now thinking that some further checks on the wiring are needed.

Thanks.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

This "wire" coming out of the ceiling sounds like flex (i.e. multi-stranded conductors, the sort of stuff used on portable appliances?) rather than solid-core cable which it should be. Also, if it has a green insulated earth conductor rather than green/yellow, it is fairly old flex (the colours changed in 1975).

Don't panic - it isn't necessarily unsafe - the PVC insulation has an extremely long life, and as long as the cores are thick enough to carry the current, there's no danger there.

Anyway - it sounds as if this flex is not in use anyway. I'm still a little puzzled - did you just cut hole in the ceiling and happen to find it, or was there something there before? Did it work?

There is no way that we can tell you what you should do next without more info about where that flex has come from, and what it is/was used for. It might simply be that someone in the past connected a light fitting with a length of flex to a nearby rose or junction box. Have you removed any nearby roses to see if there's any flex wired into them, and heading off into the void?

You are going to have to lift some floorboards, or get up in the loft, and trace that length of flex to work out how and where it is connected. Have you done the basic checks to see if any of the conductors are live, and if so do any of your light switches turn it on/off?

Unless you are confident that you know how things should be wired up, then it sounds as though you should get someone in. Who will also need to lift floorboards or get up in the loft, so you might as well have a look yourself.

 

[Jeremya]

Thanks again for the help.

When we moved into the house there was the cable, as previously described, poking out of a circular decorative ceiling fitting. The cable had a wire connector strip attached to it and fixed to the ceiling was a hook which I assume was used to hang a light. So I concluded that there was a light there at some time and assumed the cable to be live and working.

I took the strip connector off and wired in a ceiling rose and..nothing.

I shall recheck the wiring connections again and if no go then get an electrican in...

Any further advice gratefully received.

Thanks

 

[ban-all-sheds]

RULE 1 OF WORKING WITH SOMEONE ELSES WIRING - NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING

At best things won't work properly, at worst.....

Anyway - if there was a light there at some point what you have is a switched supply for a light - not something designed to be attached to a rose, as they are supposed to be wired like this:

However, if you have a hole, and a neat way to sort that out is to fit a rose, then you need to connect one of the cores in your flex to one of the cores of the light fitting, and the other to the other. If you have connected the "supply" to Live and Loop, and the light to Live and Neutral, how did you think the supply would get to the light?

 

[RussSvatt]

Have a look at this page it gives a great explanation of how to wire a ceiling rose and has wiring diagrams for both old and new cable colours. It's really easy to follow how to wirw a ceiling rose

 

[Taylortwocities]

Russ, you great big dollop of poo.

LOOK AT THE DATE of the thread. It was 8 years ago

PS Also, take some time to look at the WIKI and Sticky sections at the top of this forum.
There you will find all the wiring diagrams that anyone could need, without going off to some other strange place.

 

[riveralt]

Yeh Gods BAS was shouting in Capitals and Flaying people in RED even back in 2003 - I thought it was just recent incarnation

 

[Taylortwocities]

As my Uncle Cliff always said "Things don't change, they stay as they are".

 

[securespark]

Sounds like a Cliff Richard lyric....

IIRC, the last time green only sleeving was used was in 1977.