Door handle retention screws - Why so bad?

[johnny2007]

getting it straight is the hardest part;

You can use homemade jig.
Take a piece of wood 1"+ thick (hardwood is better)
Measure and mark both sides where your hole should be.
Drill half way each side with a small drill bit until you meet in the middle
Get a bigger drill bit and pass through.
Then get the drill bit you'll be using on the door and drill through.
Of course if you have a pillar drill, just do one hole of correct size with it.
There you have your jig.
Now position it on the door, hold it firmly or use a clamp and drill.
Failing that, you could use the above method to make a jig, directly on the door, after taking careful measurements, so drill halfway from both sides with small bit and then increase

 

[chirpychippy]

Not one screw was the same in the (upside down) hinges.

The appearance of an upside down hinge in relation to the orientation of the etching on the hinge being upside down doesnt mean the hinge is fitted incorrectly.

Hinges are always installed "Most to the post" and depending on which side of the door is being hung the hinge can have the appearance of being upside down yet be installed correctly.

 

[johnny2007]

The appearance of an upside down hinge in relation to the orientation of the etching on the hinge being upside down doesnt mean the hinge is fitted incorrectly.

Hinges are always installed "Most to the post" and depending on which side of the door is being hung the hinge can have the appearance of being upside down yet be installed correctly.

Correct, but they put all of them wrong.
And all of them had a mix of odd screws; one even had a clout nail!
Besides, with ball bearing oversized hinges (as they are), this is not very important, in fact I always fit them with the logo facing the correct way, not upside down.

 

[robinbanks]

You can use homemade jig.

True. Though for a relatively inexperienced DIYer I'd typically recommend spending a few quid on a commercial one

Make sure you agree about which way is up and which is down.

good call: I'd probably tell my helper "look from the side, it's your job to keep the drill bit horizontal" because horizontal is unambiguous and I, holding the drill would look downwards, doing the lefty righty bit (which is slightly more complex as it's relative to the door)

OK, I'll give it a try. I've found a "low-risk" door to test with

Cheers.

that's the spirit! You can do this, but stop as soon as you feel you're making a mistake and send us a pic if you need some more advice

 

[mrrusty]

Hinges are always installed "Most to the post" and depending

Never heard that and can't really see any logic because with a normal hinge with 3 + 2 sections on the hinge there are only ever 2 bearing surfaces whichever way up you hang it. I too tend to put the logo the right way up....

 

[johnny2007]

Never heard that and can't really see any logic because with a normal hinge with 3 + 2 sections on the hinge there are only ever 2 bearing surfaces whichever way up you hang it. I too tend to put the logo the right way up....

That's because you're a spring chicken
There's a correct way up as chippy said, but nowadays hinges are oversized and doors are lightweight.
I took put logo up.
I now mainly use ball bearing hinges, each capable to hold at least 75kg.
On fire doors I fit 3 of them, so waaay over the top.
Then the old rules become obsolete.
There are hinges with logos printed twice, in both directions so to be able to fit it correctly all the times.

 

[mrrusty]

On fire doors I fit 3 of them, so waaay over the top.

I tend to fit 3 on all doors except ordinary internals. Equally or unequally spaced? I always put 2 towards the top and 1 at the bottom.

Y spring chicken still can't fathom any structural reason why a hinge would perform differently depending on which way up it was - it's exactly the same number of bearing surfaces and forces on the pin. I suspect it's just a convention, like lining up slots in screw heads...

 

[johnny2007]

I tend to fit 3 on all doors except ordinary internals. Equally or unequally spaced? I always put 2 towards the top and 1 at the bottom.

Y spring chicken still can't fathom any structural reason why a hinge would perform differently depending on which way up it was - it's exactly the same number of bearing surfaces and forces on the pin. I suspect it's just a convention, like lining up slots in screw heads...

Yes, 3 on heavy doors and external, 2 on lightweight internal doors.
3 hinges spaced 6 inches from top, 6 inches gap and another one and the last one 8 inches from the bottom.
Hinges are not symmetrical, there's a post side and a door side.
Of course this is trivial considering what said above, especially with good quality hinges and ball bearing ones.
But there's a theoretical correct way to fit them.
When we only had butt hinges readily available, the site master used to come and check we'd fitted them correctly.
If you were an apprentice, he would initially explain and mark the post side so you could learn.
Nowadays everything goes.
As for the slotted screws lined up, that's a cosmetic thing of times gone by where people took pride in their work.
Now, as said, a bucket of odd screws has replaced the well organised screw cabinet handmade by you and bolted in your van.
I praised the Lord when good quality hinges started being sold with proper screws fit for the job.

 

[robinbanks]

Hinges are not symmetrical

Except when they are symmetrical, and then it doesn't really matter; just be consistent. If the pin is removable, put the hinge so that gravity keeps it in rather than encourages it to drop out if it gets worn. This may violate your most-to-post rule, or you may be able to follow it and remove the pin, reinserting it from the other end

When hinges aren't symmetrical, such as cranked or swaged hinges, you install them whichever way round the cranking suits your needs. That might be to help open the gap up (position the open door so it doesn't block the gap) or it may close it down (if the door has to open but avoid hitting something next to the open door. Again this may defeat the "most to post" rule

If swaged hinges are fitted inconsistently the door doesn't hang vertical when opened, and using the door places stress on the hinges. Having a rule to follow is typically a good idea for muppet apprentices doing grunt work like hanging doors because they probably quite ignorant of the finer reasons why things are done like they're done. If they're natural thinkers they may grow to understand and appreciate the reasons, but for those that don't, a simple rule to always follow is the best approach - someone else has done the thinking, and the doers just repeat the pattern

 

[johnny2007]

If the pin is removable, put the hinge so that gravity keeps it in rather than encourages it to drop out if it gets worn.

Do we really need to say this???
And do we really need to list all the exceptions to the rule and all different kinds of hinges on the market???
We're talking about internal doors with hinges that even a child will recognise.
Do we need to specify that the Space Shuttle door hinges work differently???

 

[robinbanks]

Do we really need to say this?

Do we need to specify that the Space Shuttle door hinges work differently?

Well, you know last year when a Boeing 737 door blew out..

 

[JohnD]

good call: I'd probably tell my helper "look from the side, it's your job to keep the drill bit horizontal" because horizontal is unambiguous and I, holding the drill would look downwards, doing the lefty righty bit (which is slightly more complex as it's relative to the door)

A good technique to keep a drill horizontal is to slip a loose washer over the bit. If the drill is sloping, the washer will slide downhill when it spins.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

True. Though for a relatively inexperienced DIYer I'd typically recommend spending a few quid on a commercial one

Muscle memory works pretty well for me, but I often thought to glue a bubble on top of a drill, to get it level. The left/right part be judged by eye, from above.

 

[opps]

Muscle memory works pretty well for me, but I often thought to glue a bubble on top of a drill, to get it level. The left/right part be judged by eye, from above.

I think there was once a drill with a spirit level guide. There are also retrofit kits.

 

[robinbanks]

I think there was once a drill with a spirit level guide. There are also retrofit kits.

Probably made by Black n Decker. Often thought their kit had good ideas to make up for the relative inexperience of their typical customer