Drainage quotes am I paying to much?
- Thread starter Clint101
- Start date
Unnecessarily patronising, but a pretty good description of my system. Except that I had just the bare minimum of fall so I'm glad I did it myself, having seen the results of professional work (including two uphill drainage pipe runs).
I got in a groundwork company to install the sewage treatment works in its 3m deep hole. They were a decent sized commercial company, they were fitting the surface water drainage system for a major american-based chain (won't say who) new drive-thru car park at the same time as mine. They often installed underground fuel tanks under petrol stations. Their lads were intrigued to see my gradient level, they'd never seen one before. They just used the seemingly industry-standard make the bubble go a bit to the side technique.
I'm sure there are good pro companies around. But I never met them during my project. I got quotes from two installers who were intending to bury a plastic system in gravel rather than concrete (as the manufacturer requires). Said they know better than the company that makes the things. These systems are basically sealed concrete formwork, they're just strong enough to hold the concrete back until it sets and that's it.
My point is that sometimes amateur fussiness and caring about the fact that it's my house can more than make up for a lack of knowledge. Trades often knowingly botch a job to save time and money. Just watch any newbuild snagging video on youtube to see the garbage that the industry thinks they'll get away with providing.
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Not patronising at all. You haven't lived until you have just severed the water main (to a block of three busy households) and no stop tap in sight, late in the working day.
I was merely pointing out how far off the mark this little ditty was....
There is and has been some absolutely awful quality stuff being thrown in the ground on many Developments over the past few years, but it seems on a par with many of the trades now, they're on a Price and only bothered about quantity, not quality. Then, if the Developer is not monitoring a lot of the work, they're getting away with it. By the time the Purchaser comes along and finds the drains are blocking on a regular basis, the Groundworks Team responsible have long since ridden off into the sunset.
House drains are usually fairly straightforward, it's the bigger stuff that is much more complicated. Deep trenches require support, poor quality ground can be a nightmare to trench through, you're often avoiding existing services, connections to and/or diversions of existing sewers require specialist kit and knowledge, as well as working to the Water Companies specifications.
I've worked on jobs where we've been putting large diameter pipes 7-8m deep, that is not for the faint hearted.
It's not rocket science, I found it surprisingly straightforward. Plus it's one of those cases where dodgy trades can hide careless work, as it all gets buried ten minutes after fitting it.
Nobody is going to cripple themselves for life as a result of digging a few metres of trenches around their one home.
I'd encourage anyone with a brain to consider DIYing it, especially if they already have a detailed understanding of what's needed where - that's basically half of the work done so you might as well carry on with it. Trades don't like working for someone who knows what's needed anyway, they want to work for people who just want the job done and won't question anything.
I've dug up my electricity supply cable and water supply pipe. By hand, with a spade. Both intentionally to trace them back and find out where they came from. I can confirm that I didn't die in the process. I should add that I wouldn't have gone near either if they weren't modern plastic though - stay well away from old tar covered cables and lead pipes.
Nobody is going to cripple themselves for life as a result of digging a few metres of trenches around their one home.
I'd encourage anyone with a brain to consider DIYing it, especially if they already have a detailed understanding of what's needed where - that's basically half of the work done so you might as well carry on with it. Trades don't like working for someone who knows what's needed anyway, they want to work for people who just want the job done and won't question anything.
I've dug up my electricity supply cable and water supply pipe. By hand, with a spade. Both intentionally to trace them back and find out where they came from. I can confirm that I didn't die in the process. I should add that I wouldn't have gone near either if they weren't modern plastic though - stay well away from old tar covered cables and lead pipes.
Errr, they break easily. Then you get wet or go bang.
Poster # 21,
In all your digging activities there's no mention of your water testing new drainage or having your excavations inspected by BCO.
Perhaps inconvenient details are irrelevancies for such a busy chap?
Whatever, I would encourage anyone with even half a brain to follow the Bldg. Regs.
In all your digging activities there's no mention of your water testing new drainage or having your excavations inspected by BCO.
Perhaps inconvenient details are irrelevancies for such a busy chap?
Whatever, I would encourage anyone with even half a brain to follow the Bldg. Regs.
The building regs can be downloaded for free. They're very clearly written, almost everything you need to know is in there...
Drainage and waste disposal: Approved Document H
Building regulation in England for foul water drainage and disposal.
I can confirm that everything I've done complies with every letter of every rule. All was air pressure tested with a cheap kit. I know it's all spot-on and done with much greater care than I've seen done by trades. I chose not to pay £100s for official sheets of paper to state this. Lots of photographic evidence taken in case any clipboard-wielding busybodies turned up. It's all now outside of the enforcement period so all is well.
I've no plans to sell the place until I'm dead, so I don't care what potential buyers might think. I do know that I had other boxes not ticked on our previous house (no certificate for the re-wire, DIY plumbing, windows were installed by non-Fensa installer, i.e. me), I declared everything honestly and bluntly to the buyer's solicitors and they simply didn't care.
So... I think I probably have at least half a brain, and all regs were followed.
Rules are there to be observed by the wise and to be obeyed by fools.
Give up the drama queen stuff.
Regulations are to REGULATE the building industry, i.e. to ensure that innocent householders don't get conned by cowboys.
If I'm doing it myself and understand the regulations then there's little point in me paying £100s for an official rubber stamp to confirm that I didn't rip myself off.
The only reason to do this would be if planning to sell. In which case the buyer may want confirmation that I'm not ripping them off. But I've found that, in reality, they can see that everything's been done with great care and they decide they want the house despite it not ticking every petty little box.
Buyers who go around insisting on everything needlessly complying with regulation bla bla whatever 56.3 tend to find that the seller is likely to tell them they'll sell to someone else. People have brains and use their judgement.
Regulations are to REGULATE the building industry, i.e. to ensure that innocent householders don't get conned by cowboys.
If I'm doing it myself and understand the regulations then there's little point in me paying £100s for an official rubber stamp to confirm that I didn't rip myself off.
The only reason to do this would be if planning to sell. In which case the buyer may want confirmation that I'm not ripping them off. But I've found that, in reality, they can see that everything's been done with great care and they decide they want the house despite it not ticking every petty little box.
Buyers who go around insisting on everything needlessly complying with regulation bla bla whatever 56.3 tend to find that the seller is likely to tell them they'll sell to someone else. People have brains and use their judgement.
Poster # 28,
For professionals or DIY'ers, BCO is commonly known as their best friend.
Some people do have brains & some, as you self admit, unfortunately, only have "half a brain" - & it shows esp where capitalisation is used instead of informed argument.
Bldg Regs are the law of the land - among other things they protect present & future "innocent householders" from people like yourself.
Given the confused state of your arguments you could be creating dangerous traps.
If Regularisation is later needed it can be far more expensive & time consuming than what you call "rubber stamping" - for example BCO might require all drainage to be dug out and exposed.
There's no period of safety for a criminal offence of non-compliance - you could be pursued at any time.
BCO's typically make a series of inspections - they dont just electronically sign off the work.
You say "Buyers have judgement" - yes of course they do. They go straight to a solicitor and a RIC Surveyor to protect themselves from people like you.
For professionals or DIY'ers, BCO is commonly known as their best friend.
Some people do have brains & some, as you self admit, unfortunately, only have "half a brain" - & it shows esp where capitalisation is used instead of informed argument.
Bldg Regs are the law of the land - among other things they protect present & future "innocent householders" from people like yourself.
Given the confused state of your arguments you could be creating dangerous traps.
If Regularisation is later needed it can be far more expensive & time consuming than what you call "rubber stamping" - for example BCO might require all drainage to be dug out and exposed.
There's no period of safety for a criminal offence of non-compliance - you could be pursued at any time.
BCO's typically make a series of inspections - they dont just electronically sign off the work.
You say "Buyers have judgement" - yes of course they do. They go straight to a solicitor and a RIC Surveyor to protect themselves from people like you.
If my best friend took £300 off me every time they popped round they'd cease to be my best friend pretty quickly.
If you ever actually do anything practical you can tell us all about it.
From California?! No idea why you'd care about UK building regs anyway. Unless it's all fantasy of course.
If you ever actually do anything practical you can tell us all about it.
From California?! No idea why you'd care about UK building regs anyway. Unless it's all fantasy of course.
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When we sold our last house (2019) - same story. Loads of work DIYed by me. Not picked up on survey as all work was good, and no-one cared about the missing paperwork.
Like @Ivor Windybottom , I read the regs, stick to them as closely as possible, and don't always worry about bits of paper. All my work in this house is now past the enforcement date.... but it was still the 4 year rule then... I actually had a BCO on site for something I was doing ( I do get the big stuff signed off), and we were chatting about the windows I was making and installing myself - not on the application - he didn't care. The regs have purpose, but the paperwork isn't always necessary.....
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There was never a 4 year rule for regs. That was only for planning. It used to be one year for an enforcement notice to be issued to the home owner from date of works completion. However if they applied to the High Court there was no time limit. It's why lenders want an indemnity policy, and why they are relatively cheap.
There was a 2 year limit for the prosecution of the builders who carried out the work. Unlimited fine and 2 years max in prison.
Since Grenfell the time limits have now been increased to 10 years.
There was a 2 year limit for the prosecution of the builders who carried out the work. Unlimited fine and 2 years max in prison.
Since Grenfell the time limits have now been increased to 10 years.
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