Radiators upstairs are on downstairs aren't

[bettz1]

Hi I've a feeling it's the balancing? I turned all the radiators off 2 months ago the tvrs & lockshields clockwise to drain one as I was thinking of changing it.

First time using the heating and I suddenly realised I hadn't turned the tvrs or lockshields back on.I then attempted this whilst the heating was on.

Now some are on upstairs, I think I've messed up by fully opening all the lockshields turning them anticlockwise, most are on upstairs I can't get the towel radiator to work in the bathroom I can feel the right pipe is hot but the radiator remains cold even if I turn the valve on the right side either way.

Do all the lockshields need to be open for the hot water to flow through upstairs and downstairs?

I'm going to have another go tomorrow should I turn all the tvrs off upstairs to see if the downstairs ones come on?

Is it then a case of turning off the downstairs ones if they heat up and slowly opening the upstairs?

I've checked the pins and they don't look like there stuck down.

 

[ericmark]

I have struggled to adjust lock shield valves, it does depend on the system, this house with micro bore and an oil fired on/off boiler needed a different approach to my late mother's modulating boiler.

I read one should use a differential thermometer on input and output pipes and set to around 15°C drop, but I can't find the sensors for my differential thermometer, and attempts to use a point and read electronic thermometer failed. So with mothers I tried by one turning the TRV fully on, and also the wall thermostat to maximum so it will not turn off while doing the setting, then starting on what is likely the easiest radiator for the boiler to push water through, turn the lock shield fully off, then on ¼ turn at a time until one pipe gets a little warm, then stop, and move to next.

Once I had done that, the system did work of sorts, but some rooms a little cold, and some a little too warm, and *123456 on the TRV is rather useless, so bought a pair of electronic heads, these showed temperature in °C so could set to a target of 20°C, and the computer displayed the current temperature as well, so I closed the lock shield a tad if it over shot, or opened if not warm enough, and moved the pair radiator to radiator until all set, and once the lock shield set, putting the old heads back on, I could experiment with the setting until temperature was what I wanted, now the lock shield was set.

Since then, I have got more electronic heads, so this house had 10, one is linked to the hub so can fire the boiler, also two wall thermostats, but the oil fired system works very different to the gas system in my late mother's house and my last house.

 

[spile]

Most TVRs stick in the off position in my experience.

 

[Johntheo5]

I've often read of the pins sticking shut after say months off during the summer, I'm a bit surprised at this as the there is a pretty strong spring forcing them to the open position, so wonder what is actually causing them to stick shut, I've used TRV's for years and years and have never had one stuck shut, after the summer they just work away year after year and last ~ 6/8 years, the spring does fail then sometimes and they might stay shut, I just throw them away then and install a new one.

 

[Johntheo5]

Hi I've a feeling it's the balancing? I turned all the radiators off 2 months ago the tvrs & lockshields clockwise to drain one as I was thinking of changing it.

First time using the heating and I suddenly realised I hadn't turned the tvrs or lockshields back on.I then attempted this whilst the heating was on.

Now some are on upstairs, I think I've messed up by fully opening all the lockshields turning them anticlockwise, most are on upstairs I can't get the towel radiator to work in the bathroom I can feel the right pipe is hot but the radiator remains cold even if I turn the valve on the right side either way.

Do all the lockshields need to be open for the hot water to flow through upstairs and downstairs?

I'm going to have another go tomorrow should I turn all the tvrs off upstairs to see if the downstairs ones come on?

Is it then a case of turning off the downstairs ones if they heat up and slowly opening the upstairs?

I've checked the pins and they don't look like there stuck down.

View attachment 399705

If you think the pins are stuck down, remove the TRV head and pull on them with a pliers, then (or even if no movement) get a hammer, reverse it in your hand, and push on the pin with the end of the handle, it shoud move in/out ~ 3 to 5mm. When replacing the actuator head ensure its fully open before tightening the knurled nut or whatever.

 

[bettz1]

Ive noticed this on the kitchen floor

 

[ericmark]

There are TRV units where the flow rate is controlled as well in the same unit.

I've used TRV's for years and years and have never had one stuck shut, after the summer they just work away year after year and last ~ 6/8 years, the spring does fail then sometimes and they might stay shut, I just throw them away then and install a new one.

The same here, the operative word is used, I have seen valves stuck where the head is set at maximum, which means they do not do any work, and are not being used. Set around mid-way, they will move, most of mine have two setting, day and night, so will motor to open and closed when the program calls for a change.

If I take my wife's bedroom as an example. She wants it on to get room warm before going to bed, but does not like it hot overnight, but wants it a little warmer in the morning to get dressed, so the valve will naturally move every day in winter, summer there may be days when the room does not drop below 17°C, so valve does not move, but unlikely to go even 2 months without moving, I know as on the odd day we hear the boiler fire up.

With the mechanical TRV, the start and finish temperature, when the valve first cracks open, to when it is fully open is around 2°C, this is the problem with them, set at 2.5 with a small radiator in a large room and the room will likely stabilise at 18°C, but same setting with a large radiator in a small room, and looking at 21°C with same temperature outside.

This means as the outside temperature drops, so does the room temperature. If anything, I want the reverse, on a bright warm day having the room at 17°C is fine, on a dull winter's day I want more like 22°C, I have heard about weather compensation, but I have not seen how this works with the TRV head? Or even wall thermostat? I assume it controls the temperature of circulating water, but my boiler is not that clever.

Living room the TRV heads are not linked to boiler, so if set at 24°C it will only heat the room if boiler running due to wall thermostat. The two radiators are at 90° to each other, so there is no opposite wall for the wall thermostat to be mounted on. And I don't want the boiler to run when the TRV is closed. So they are set on the high side. So I am careful to set the TRV a bit on the high side, and I check to see the target (21°C) is above the current (17°C) when the wall thermostat is likely to call for heat. The eQ-3 TRV does not show current, but I do not have them in rooms where there is a wall thermostat.

Since Brexit it seems the cost of a TRV head has shot up, the eQ-3 Bluetooth version, I got 5 of them for £15 each in 2019, today the manual version £22.28 but there are other makes, for second one shown, so why anyone would fit a mechanical head I really don't know?

 

[bettz1]

So ive turned all the lockshields off apart from the one closest to the boiler and the kitchen which I think is the furthest away. The one closest is red hot but the kitchen isn't getting hot I can feel the pipe that feeds it is hot.

I've turned the lockshield anti clockwise as much as it'll go

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I've used TRV's for years and years and have never had one stuck shut, after the summer they just work away year after year and last

That does surprise me, I have often come across them stuck, after being closed all summer. I had one stuck, unnoticed, until just this week, when the colder weather struck - in the downstairs toilet. Now fixed. I usually do a test run of the heating, before the weather turns - make sure they all heat up, bleed them, etc., which I did a few weeks ago - I must have missed checking that one.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

So ive turned all the lockshields off apart from the one closest to the boiler and the kitchen which I think is the furthest away. The one closest is red hot but the kitchen isn't getting hot I can feel the pipe that feeds it is hot.

Check the lockshield is fully open, check the TRV pin is free, turn the one other rad which gets hot, off.

 

[denso13]

So ive turned all the lockshields off apart from the one closest to the boiler and the kitchen which I think is the furthest away. The one closest is red hot but the kitchen isn't getting hot I can feel the pipe that feeds it is hot.

I've turned the lockshield anti clockwise as much as it'll goView attachment 399771

Leave only the kitchen one open, close all the rest.

 

[bettz1]

Check the lockshield is fully open, check the TRV pin is free, turn the one rad which gets hot off.

It looks fully open.

My plan was to get the nearest and furthest away hot then slowly turn the others 1/4 and extra so on.

Leave only the kitchen one open, close all the rest.

I've fully opened it but still no heat, the pipe doesn't feel as hot now.

 

[denso13]

I've fully opened it but still no heat

Then there is a flow problem to the radiator, either pipework or valves. Balancing won't sort it.

Have you closed all the others?

 

[bettz1]

Then there is a flow problem to the radiator, either pipework or valves. Balancing won't sort it.

Have you closed all the others?

Just double checking the downstairs radiator in the bathroom was still on. I've a towel radiator in the en suite which is still warm but not sure which was to turn the 2 valves as there's no markings.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

It looks fully open.

Check it - try pressing it down with a hammer shaft/side of your pliers/etc., it should be possible to get it to move a couple of mm in, then spring back out.