Fire fighter.....

[pete01]

I think he should’ve been offered more training

It sounds like he was a great firefighter but a not very good manager, who was unable to provide leadership to staff.

That's roughly what I've been saying all along

 

[pete01]

But he was demoted, not sacked….as I’ve stated numerous times.

You keep claiming he was sacked…..which comes back to arguing against facts

Look back i said "ok not sacked"

 

[pete01]

Another case of arguing for argument sake

 

[Notch7]

Look back i said "ok not sacked"

You keep saying he was sacked…..twice in the last hour or so

 

[pete01]

You keep saying he was sacked…..twice in the last hour or so

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View attachment 400875

That was 12 o'clock, what time is it?

But I did say "ok not sacked"

So you can drop that one now if ya want ive got all day

 

[morqthana]

It is acceptable in the forces which is totally different to any other workplace.

And yet that idea is increasingly rejected by the civil courts, military courts, armed forces heads, and the MoD.

Funny old world, isn't it.

 

[morqthana]

I agree with that statement other than we have no idea that he wasn't a good manager/Supervisor,

On the contrary. The employment tribunals have shown that he clearly wasn't.

he didn't see her complaint as anything other than whinging probably.

Possibly he did. A good manager/supervisor would not.

The. whole thing in my opinion was blown out of proportion and should have been dealt with at the station level.

It should have been. That was precisely what his job was to to. He failed to do it.

The woman in question was an international rugby player - I doubt she was a shrinking violet. If he'd put his foot down at the start, firmly dealt with the complaints, left the offenders in no doubt that they must stop and not repeat it, I think there's a good chance it would have blown over, not up.

She has quite obviously gone out of her way to escalate things further.

She was failed by her manager when he did nothing about her complaints. When that left her with a choice between leaving or staying to be a continued target of abuse and sexual harassment (which had reached the stage of unwanted physical contact) she left, felt she had been forced out, and went to a tribunal claiming unfair dismissal, and the tribunal, headed by a legal professional, upheld her complaint.

Why are you so dead set against recognising what actually happened in all of this?

 

[morqthana]

He wasn't sacked, he left feeling he had no option. He took it to an employment tribunal but lost as he didn't lose his job but left of his own accord, probably felt let down by his service.

Sacha Acheson wasn't sacked, she left feeling she had no option. She took it to an employment tribunal and won.

I expect she felt let down by her service when they did nothing about persistent sexual derogatory and offensive comments, colleagues frequently making openly sexist comments with managers joining in and even starting it, and sexual harassment.

 

[morqthana]

I am entitled to my own opinion and that is the opinion that I have arrived at.

It's a deeply flawed one, because you have arrived at it by taking no note of the facts, just basing it on your prejudices.

The whole situation was created by a girl out for a quick payout

A claim which the evidence shows is a falsehood.

and left the service as she didn't care enough to stay in it.

She was forced out by a service which did nothing to protect her from persistent sexual derogatory and offensive comments and sexual harassment.

This man put 20 years into it and was let down.

So was she.

 

[morqthana]

Evidence from a news paper, OK

If you are dubious about the quality of journalism in the Sun, how about the Telegraph? Not a paper, I'm sure you'll agree, with an instinctive bias in favour of woke lefty snowflakes and fragile little girls afraid of a bit of banter.

Access Restricted

But if you're dead set against newspapers, you could if you want look at the evidence from here

Ms A Acheson v Avon Fire and Rescue Service: 1400826/2022 and 1402825/2022 - Judgment.

Ms A Acheson v Avon Fire and Rescue Service: 1400826/2022 and 1402825/2022 - Reasons.

Ms A Acheson v Avon Fire and Rescue Service: 1400826/2022 and 1402825/2022 - Remedy.

The question is do you want to? Have you got the b--ls to read things which will expose the invalidity of your "opinion"?

 

[morqthana]

I haven't read the detail,

You should.

what was he sacked

He wasn't.

I heard it was not stopping others using the word

You heard wrong. That's what the headline in the Sun wanted you to hear.

It's all just a culture war anyway

The employment disputes weren't but there is a big element of that in the discussions here, driven by the culture warriors fighting to keep workplace abuse and sexual harassment.

 

[Highway Man]

And yet that idea is increasingly rejected by the civil courts, military courts, armed forces heads, and the MoD.

Funny old world, isn't it.

It is a funny old world yes, I don't care what you say about the subject, you have no idea of what the training involves. The majority of the cases you have shown links for are either cadets or young trainees. This is all part of the breaking your spirit which is all part of the process, they then build you up, if this was an office environment or a normal workplace then it would be classed as bullying. Once you have gone through basic training things are very different, the bullying doesnt exist. Those who are tougher than the ones that leave are the ones that the army want. The ones who complain about are not wanted, they either leave or get discharged.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

• Suicides linked to military issues:
  • Gunner Jaysley Beck died by suicide after being sexually assaulted. An inquest found that the assault and the Army's failure to act contributed to her death, according to BBC News and The Guardian.
  • Royal Artillery Bombardier Nadine Askew took her own life in 2021 following a dispute with a colleague, as detailed in a report by BBC News.
• Femicide: The Femicide Census reported that between 2010 and 2019, 52 women in the UK were killed by men who were serving or former military personnel.

 

[Highway Man]

• Suicides linked to military issues:
  • Gunner Jaysley Beck died by suicide after being sexually assaulted. An inquest found that the assault and the Army's failure to act contributed to her death, according to BBC News and The Guardian.
  • Royal Artillery Bombardier Nadine Askew took her own life in 2021 following a dispute with a colleague, as detailed in a report by BBC News.
• Femicide: The Femicide Census reported that between 2010 and 2019, 52 women in the UK were killed by men who were serving or former military personnel.

Very extreme cases, not the norm. I have never witnessed anything like this and obviously this happens in lots of work places not just the army. It happens in the Police, fire service, Navy etc.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Very extreme cases, not the norm. I have never witnessed anything like this and obviously this happens in lots of work places not just the army. It happens in the Police, fire service, Navy etc.

Agreed, but it just shows what bullying can do if it's not addressed properly