Lower door hinge moves when closing

[Nanako]

I've recently taken a door off the hinges for repainting. Now i have remounted it and the door will not close

The hinge leaf that is connected to the doorframe isn't moving, of that i'm sure. I have thoroughly secured it with 80mm screws, and i felt that boring into wood long before they were flush.

But SOMETHING is moving. And because it is, the lower part of the door leans over slightly and hits the edge of the frame


I have recorded a video demonstrating the problem, i had to zip it up to upload here

Could anyone please have a look and give me ideas about what might be going on? I'm happy to show other things or give more info

 

[Alec_t]

Neither leaf of the lower hinge is tightly screwed down. Are the frame and the door both hollow?

 

[Nanako]

Neither leaf of the lower hinge is tightly screwed down. Are the frame and the door both hollow?

thats what i thought and i just spent a whole other thread trying to figure out why, until i went way overkill and got some ****ing massive screws that are now fixed in far deeper

They do not move, they are 100% not being pulled out of their holes. The leaf attached to the frame is staying absolutely fixed and rigid where it should be.

Or at least, most of it is...

the only reasonable explanation i can think is that the metal is bending just after the screws,

Heres some closeup pics, i know its a grisly scene, the whole mess is covered in glue, toothpicks, and wood filler, ill clean it up later once i figure out the practical parts. The two star screws closest to the door are 80mm long, i installed them today, and they would probably tear the frame off the masonry before they would move in their holes. They're solid

 

[StephenStephen]

Hmmm,
A couple of questions or three come to mind...

Is the door actually moving in relation to the hinges, or is it simply fixed in a different place to before you started?

Is the door hitting the frame all the way up and down when you try to close it, or just at the top?

Were the hinges proud of the frame beforehand?

Did you take the screws out of the door, as well as the frame?

...and an observation:
It looks like the heads of the screws are proud of the hinge surface, which could prevent the door from closing properly...

 

[Nanako]

Hmmm,
A couple of questions or three come to mind...

Is the door actually moving in relation to the hinges, or is it simply fixed in a different place to before you started?

Is the door hitting the frame all the way up and down when you try to close it, or just at the top?

Were the hinges proud of the frame beforehand?

Did you take the screws out of the door, as well as the frame?

...and an observation:
It looks like the heads of the screws are proud of the hinge surface, which could prevent the door from closing properly...

I'm afraid i have no idea if its in a different place or not since starting, it didnt occur to me to take pictures

It hits the frame only at the bottom, not the top

No idea

No, i took the screws out of the frame and left the hinges attached to the door while working on it

And RE: Observation: While what you describe isnt impossible in some circumstances, its definitely not the problem here. The door doesnt close far enough for the screw prominence to be a problem before this issue starts

My best guess as to the cause of this, is that i might have the hinges misaligned. could that cause it? If one were farther out from the frame than another.

What do various kinds of misaligned hinges do to door closing?

 

[StephenStephen]

Are you sure there's no crud, paint or packing between the hinge and the frame that wasn't there before?

 

[Nanako]

Are you sure there's no crud, paint or packing between the hinge and the frame that wasn't there before?

nothing new has been added to those areas, but i have no idea if the hinges have been put back at the same exact spots as before

i suspect they have not and this is the problem

 

[chirpychippy]

This is the hinge on my door. The hinge leafs are 76mm long x 20mm wide, there are two per hinge, one gets chopped into the door one gets chopped into the frame.

The leaf on the door is chopped in by 20mm from the face edge of the door, therefore the leaf that goes on the frame has to be chopped in by 20mm from the face edge of the frame, when the door is shut the face edge of the door and frame are flush in there planes.

If I chopped the frame leaf in by 25mm "to far foward" the door would hit the door stop and not close.

Your hinge looks like its set "to far forward" and needs to be fitted further back so the long edge of the hinge leaf marries with the frame face.

Those screw heads are to big, they'll cause hinge bind.

 

[foxhole]

New hinges fitted correctly would solve it .

 

[Nanako]

New hinges fitted correctly would solve it .

almost certainly true, but first i'm going to try the existing hinges, fitted correctly

i'm about 90% certain i haven't put them in the right places, and i will be working on that today to make sure they are properly aligned, hope to report success tonight!

 

[Nanako]

This is the hinge on my door. The hinge leafs are 76mm long x 20mm wide, there are two per hinge, one gets chopped into the door one gets chopped into the frame.

The leaf on the door is chopped in by 20mm from the face edge of the door, therefore the leaf that goes on the frame has to be chopped in by 20mm from the face edge of the frame, when the door is shut the face edge of the door and frame are flush in there planes.

If I chopped the frame leaf in by 25mm "to far foward" the door would hit the door stop and not close.

Your hinge looks like its set "to far forward" and needs to be fitted further back so the long edge of the hinge leaf marries with the frame face.

Those screw heads are to big, they'll cause hinge bind.

Well, news!

I have moved the top hinge to properly align with the bottom one, they are now standing off from the frame by the same height, and chopped in by the same length. This has made progress!
The problem shown in the video - where the lower hinge is bending and pushing the door over - now occurs to BOTH hinges. Hooray !

Thank you for teaching me a new term, yes i have hinge bind, AKA springback

However you are incorrect about the cause. I've just tested that. I put a little wet paint on each of the screwheads on the frame side, and attempted to close the door as far as it would go, then i took these pictures after. As you can see, there is no paint on the door side, those screws aren't touching.

Maybe screw protrusion will be a problem, but there is some other problem first causing this

And lastly, just to reiterate. ALL SCREWS ARE SECURE.
The metal of the hinge is bending, the screws are not moving in their holes

 

[foxhole]

almost certainly true, but first i'm going to try the existing hinges, fitted correctly

i'm about 90% certain i haven't put them in the right places, and i will be working on that today to make sure they are properly aligned, hope to report success tonight!

Pointless excersize.

 

[Nanako]

Pointless excersize.

thank you for your input.
But these hinges worked fine before, and to the best of my knowledge they haven't been damaged. I've just made an error somewhere. I don't see any reason to spend more money

In any case, i'm learning things so it's never pointless!

 

[Nanako]

Based on randomly learning from a video, its sounding like the problem i have is the angle of my hinges

The symptoms are exactly identical to the first case shown here:

And it seems like the way to solve this is to put some shims under a part of the hinge to change its angle. specifically the two holes closest to the bearing on the frame leaf of each hinge.

Does this sound wise or not?

 

[Nanako]

The hinge leafs are 76mm long x 20mm wide, there are two per hinge, one gets chopped into the door one gets chopped into the frame.

The leaf on the door is chopped in by 20mm from the face edge of the door, therefore the leaf that goes on the frame has to be chopped in by 20mm from the face edge of the frame, when the door is shut the face edge of the door and frame are flush in there planes.

If I chopped the frame leaf in by 25mm "to far foward" the door would hit the door stop and not close.

Your hinge looks like its set "to far forward" and needs to be fitted further back so the long edge of the hinge leaf marries with the frame face.

About the chop in distance, I think i don't understand what you're saying.

Don't get me wrong, i'm sure you know your stuff, i'm just struggling to wrap my head around exactly how the chop in distance affects the way the hinge closes.

Any chance you could explain in different words, or maybe show me a video that would help?

it sounds like this might be the key to fixing things