Burnham to remove VAT from household electricity bills that seems great!

[ericmark]

I note VAT £1.88 VAT on a -£24.76 bill. Because VAT is on import not the total import and export.

I like I am sure many others, look at the off-peak of 8.625p/kWh and export of 12p/kWh, and it is both easier and cheaper to fully charge my battery rather than work out how much I will need.

Where the tariffs are closer off-peak to export, it is not so cut and dried, and it helps the grid to have solar panel and battery customers to charge the battery high enough, so there is no draw from the grid at the critical time 4 pm to 7 pm.

If I look at solar yesterday.
The solar dropped at 4:30 pm, but the state of charge faint purple line above it, shows the battery lasted out, which asks of why is the government not encouraging the use of battery storage more?

It seems nearly all grants are for panels only, no battery. I would say the battery saves us more per cost to install to the solar, but they do work together, and VAT on import only has been resulting in paying the government to store power for them.

But what well the government tax instead? We have seen some daft taxes through history, the window tax, and as people bricked up the windows a brick tax, which is why bricks became larger. Which in turn is why It's so hard to match brick sizes even today.

I look at this thread and wonder how such small solar panels help, I hope he gives us some info on how they work out?

 

[Murdochcat]

Seem a very sensible thing to do and will save us about £75 per year

More a headline attention grabber than a real policy - BUT very cheap to implement and easy to understand

Whether the population at large can work out their own savings is another question

But does the cut apply to businesses?

 

[Koolpc]

I worked it out and I will save 32p on my kennel's electric bill...per year.

 

[ericmark]

The headlines are to help the poor, but people with battery storage are unlikely to be poor.

But this will also impact on EV charging, so high electric users will get more benefit. Those who can afford, heat pumps, EVs and batteries.

But it means also a slap in the face for those providing EV charging, with even a bigger difference to charging at home to charging away for home.

 

[yorksbuilder]

Its a headline grabbing gimmick, and a small measure to absorb elsewhere. Wait for the Autumn budget where we will get shafted

 

[JohnW2]

Wait for the Autumn budget where we will get shafted

If at least some people are not 'shafted' pretty soon, we will probably be at risk of becoming a "Third World Country"

Yes, the long-term solution, if achievable, is substantial 'growth', but that will take very many years, and, in the meantime, most people seem to want 'something to be done'!

 

[Mottie]

Its a headline grabbing gimmick, and a small measure to absorb elsewhere. Wait for the Autumn budget where we will get shafted

I saw some minister or other being questioned on BBC news this morning.
"So this move will save the average bill payer £45 a year"?
"Yes, that’s correct".
"But you are only running the scheme for 6 months".
"Yes but no but yes but no………."

 

[aveatry]

Seems like a brexit bonus to me

 

[ericmark]

"So this move will save the average bill payer £45 a year"?

So the average bill payer spends £900 a year on electric. And it will save around 12p a day.

I spend around £200 a year on electric of which around £35 is VAT. So in real terms 16.5% VAT, this is because I store off-peak and then as a result export more during the day, but I pay VAT on what I import but don't get refunded VAT for export.

My battery is small 6.4 kWh, but people with larger batteries can be transferring much more energy from off-peak to peak times, so they are being charged VAT for helping the grid out by transferring energy.

This is clearly wrong. But you don't need to sell to same company as you buy electric from, this is why we have two MPAN numbers. So although in my case it would have been possible to charge VAT on the net use, not everyone could be charged in that way, so easy method is stop charging VAT.

But as to helping the poor, if one can buy a large battery, one is not really poor.

 

[JohnW2]

So the average bill payer spends £900 a year on electric. And it will save around 12p a day.

Yep, whether you call it £45 per year, 5%of £900 per year or £12 per day, those are the figures.

Would you prefer then to not remove the VAT?

 

[ericmark]

Would you prefer then to not remove the VAT?

Oh no, VAT needs removing to encourage people to use their batteries to move power from night to day. But to claim being done to help the poor, is not right.

 

[JohnW2]

Oh no, VAT needs removing to encourage people to use their batteries to move power from night to day. But to claim being done to help the poor, is not right.

In terms of bills for electricity import, it will help the poor as much as it helps the rich.

I imagine that, currently, only a tiny proportion of even non-poor people have batteries, so don't think they have much impact on the big picture.

 

[foxhole]

Seem a very sensible thing to do and will save us about £75 per year

More a headline attention grabber than a real policy - BUT very cheap to implement and easy to understand

Whether the population at large can work out their own savings is another question

But does the cut apply to businesses?

Only around £45 as it’s not for the year , and coming rises tend to wipe that out , so only a minor saving most will not notice .

 

[JohnW2]

Oh no, VAT needs removing to encourage people to use their batteries ..

Before they could use their batteries", they'd have to buy them, but wouldn't it probably take 30 years or so of saving up the £45/y VAT removal to do that?

 

[ericmark]

I'm stuck with reality, as I have no imagination.

Your days are numbered. "I or J" caught me out. A simple omission on a question paper, it forgot to ask for real answers. One question with a quadratic equation took me ages, and all I needed to put was no real answer.

Before they could use their batteries", they'd have to buy them, but wouldn't it probably take 30 years or so of saving up the £45/y VAT removal to do that?

The V2G EV charging point is likely to become the norm. And to not have static batteries with solar panels, you're losing a lot or the advantage of having solar panels.

I look local to me, and the take-up is poor but look at our old house, and a very different story, at least a ¼ of the homes have solar.

And it did cause problems, at first over voltage, then clearly there were complaints, and then the voltage dropped to a point where my 65 watt fluorescent failed.

As to the high school they do seem to have gone OTT.

Clearly we have no idea if there are batteries as well, but once one hits 6 panels, it would be daft not to.

But those without batteries are basic using the grid as a battery, so even more export and import.

The important point, is solar panels, batteries, EV, heat pumps and the like, we are looking at years payback time, so a change today needs to remain in place for years, no good chopping and changing.