Is There a Worklessness Crisis?

ajohn · 8 Apr 2024

fillyboy said:
Perhaps during covid a lot of people took early retirement.

Could well be the case and still paying tax. As I have been economically inactive for a period of time before reaching a more usual retirement age I have always thought this aspect should also be considered.

Covid though. One reliable aspect even mentioned by the BofE is that for some reason covid resulted in a big increase in people not working due to sickness.

Falling unemployment following the banking crisis - well that always happens following reasons for more people becoming unemployed even going back to Mrs T's time. Also if some one only gets to work 16hrs and could do more are they fully employed?

I know a dustbin man. One of his comments is that the young don't want to work overtime. He drives the truck. Taxation. Next time I see him I will ask if they are paid overtime if they do. It's a well established principle that might go 1 1/4 week days, 1 1/2 Sat and 2 on Sun.

fillyboy · 8 Apr 2024

Notch7 said:
All the time we keep busy with our routine as a race we tend not to change. Covid forced a whole nation of people to effectively put their life on hold and spend time at home....giving people time to think, led quite a few to stop working.

It gave my wife time to think, she thought that lazy bastard can build a small extension and fit me a new kitchen.

Mrs filly worked all the way through covid because having such a small team they could work safely. It's a mail order business and orders increased by 30% by the end of the first lockdown, presumably people had more time for armchair purchases.

diy_fun_uk · 8 Apr 2024

motorbiking said:
I thought you had to stay in school until 18 ?

16 in England however you must then do one of three things until 18 (all apprenticeship/education related.)

Scotland and Wales you can leave at 16 with no conditions to my knowledge.

carmanmemoranda · 8 Apr 2024

SirGalahad said:
So they can get the likes of Mottie Filly Motorbiking angry over woke youngsters.

Always distract and it always works.

True enough

Notch7 · 8 Apr 2024

JonathanM said:
They do. So why are they being stigmatised as workless?

it is the Telegraph.......

Murdochcat · 8 Apr 2024

Notch7 said:
yeah, there is a 16 hour limit on UC, if you work over you start losing benefits.

Not sure that is accurate. My understanding is that to be eligible for UC you have to work 16 hours per week -

This may help:

Universal Credit

Universal Credit is replacing 6 other benefits with a single monthly payment if you're out of work or on a low income - eligibility, how to prepare.

www.gov.uk

Notch7 said:
Some might say its because people are lazy but actually, doing a few more hours means they would be worse off...and those people probably dont have any money to spare

You won't be worse off, you just don't get to keep all the extra you earn is my understanding and hence why people have no incentive to work extra hours OR get a better paid job

Notch7 said:
I don't know how it could be done, but the system needs changing...

100% agree. Before Tax credits and UC people got better paid jobs or 2nd jobs if they were short

Notch7 said:
people should be able to work more hours and not be worse off.

They aren't worse off - claw back is a percentage of the pound earned.

This gives you a clue as to how much UC and TX costs the tax payers

Welfare spending: universal credit - Office for Budget Responsibility

Welfare spending is the biggest source of AME spending, with universal credit (UC) and its legacy benefit predecessors accounting for 33 per cent of total welfare spending in 2020-21 (up from 28 per cent in 2019-20).

obr.uk

transam · 8 Apr 2024

We used to get several enquiries a year for those looking for an apprenticeship (?)

Not seen any applications for a good while (?)

JonathanM · 8 Apr 2024

There's a couple of graphs here. If you put them together they show that, by historic standards, economic inactivity isn't actually that bad. It also reminded me of a peculiar aspect of the last fifteen years. As the economy recovered from the GFC, we added a very large number of jobs, but without the economy growing very much.

ajohn · 8 Apr 2024

Murdochcat said:
This gives you a clue as to how much UC and TX costs the tax payers

It helps keep unemployment figures low. The low hours helps some as well. That ties in with child care.
Changing one aspect upsets the others.

If the country should be run like this is an entirely different question.

ajohn · 8 Apr 2024

JonathanM said:
but without the economy growing very much

Eg McDonalds and coffee shops just provide jobs. McDonalds has been the bigest job creator in the past. Not sure when Burger King showed up but yet more similar jobs.

ellal · 8 Apr 2024

Notch7 said:
Covid forced a whole nation of people to effectively put their life on hold and spend time at home

Actually it was the exaggerated scaremongering about the 'virus' that did that...

And the mental health issues that it has caused has exasperated the problems many people now face!

The only ones not affected so much are those who didn't get taken in by all the irrational 'controls'

Notch7 · 8 Apr 2024

ellal said:
Actually it was the exaggerated scaremongering about the 'virus' that did that...

By putting it in inverted commas you are saying you don’t think covid is a real virus.

It is a real virus, the full genome sequence has been created for it

Given you are so completely wrong, you can’t be trusted on anything

big-all · 8 Apr 2024

JonathanM said:
There's a couple of graphs here. If you put them together they show that, by historic standards, economic inactivity isn't actually that bad. It also reminded me of a peculiar aspect of the last fifteen years. As the economy recovered from the GFC, we added a very large number of jobs, but without the economy growing very much.

View attachment 339640

View attachment 339641

i think part off the problem was government encouraging those on benefits to go self employed with grants and help opening inefficient business models with say dog walking /dog grooming or other very very hard to make work models that almost enslave the owner to work for less than minimum wage for excessive hours for perhaps 3 or 4 year to try and make it work before failing so off the unemployment statistics but no real advance iff anything more and more in debt so no actual real growth to the economy

Justin Passing · 9 Apr 2024

My doc told me years ago that I would qualify as unable to work - implication being that I should go for benefit even though I wasn't seeking work.
That's the normal, she said.
Makes my skin crawl, I said.

Most people are grateful to get it, she said.
Not sure if I was supposed to feel guilty. at that point.

Notch7 · 9 Apr 2024

Murdochcat said:
Not sure that is accurate. My understanding is that to be eligible for UC you have to work 16 hours per week -

This may help:

Universal Credit

Universal Credit is replacing 6 other benefits with a single monthly payment if you're out of work or on a low income - eligibility, how to prepare.

www.gov.uk

You won't be worse off, you just don't get to keep all the extra you earn is my understanding and hence why people have no incentive to work extra hours OR get a better paid job

100% agree. Before Tax credits and UC people got better paid jobs or 2nd jobs if they were short

They aren't worse off - claw back is a percentage of the pound earned.

This gives you a clue as to how much UC and TX costs the tax payers

Welfare spending: universal credit - Office for Budget Responsibility

Welfare spending is the biggest source of AME spending, with universal credit (UC) and its legacy benefit predecessors accounting for 33 per cent of total welfare spending in 2020-21 (up from 28 per cent in 2019-20).

obr.uk

ah I think I may have been talking about ESA

people dont want to swap to UC credit because they may well be worse off

I’ve had my benefits cut off for working one second a week too long. I don't know how I'll cope now | Liz

I made a tiny mistake filling in a form for the Department for Work and Pensions. Now, I don’t know how I’ll cope, says Liz

www.theguardian.com

Is There a Worklessness Crisis?

Similar threads