Any ideas anyone? It seems to have some 15mm copper piping inside the fixtures. The flexi piping going into it, which was floplast, didn't have any inserts as it just went around this in the fixture. Screwed shut and released in exactly the same way as speedfit otherwise...
What Type Of Push Fit Connector Is This?
- Thread starter MrMiller
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Any ideas anyone? It seems to have some 15mm copper piping inside the fixtures. The flexi piping going into it, which was floplast, didn't have any inserts as it just went around this in the fixture. Screwed shut and released in exactly the same way as speedfit otherwise...
Thank you - It definitely wasn't a plastic insert. Is this an old style?
Anyway I just pushed the pipe over it and locked it up! It seemed okay but should I take it apart again and try and get them out and push in whilst attached to the piping? Or do you think it will be okay as is?
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Hundred percent that's a pipe insert that has become jammed in the fitting. Make a concerted effort to unscrew the collar around it and the entire fitting will come apart, screw collar, slide washer, rubber seal, toothed ring, ring release collar etc will all fall out along with the pipe insert and you'll see (reassemble in same order to reuse). The toothed ring tends to drag the insert out of the end of the pipe when withdrawing the pipe from the tee
If it's metal, be aware that some push fit pipe companies, like Hep2O, do have metal inserts.
Be wary of mixing brands; use the same brand of insert and pipe, as the outer diameter of the insert matching to the inner diameter of the pipe is the important bit where cross brand variance comes in. Most pipe should be compatible outer diameter for cross brand use of fittings, unless brand X's too-large-for-brand-Y's-pipe has been used, swelling the OD of the brand Y pipe
The normal process I follow for push fit (JG) is:
Cut the pipe square on one of the * markers
Run a Stanley knife round the inner diameter to put a slight chamfer on the edge
Push a superseal insert in; the chamfer helps avoid the pipe destroying the seal on the stem of the insert
The end of the pipe now has a chamfer on the outer edge thanks to the insert
The whole lot goes into a JG fitting all the way up to the next * on the pipe and the locking collar tightened
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When doing what you've done it would be wise to put a slight chamfer on both the inner and the outer edges of the pipe, because it is the cut end of the pipe itself that must slide past the main seal in the fitting without damaging it.
When a pipe end is cut square it is very easy for it to pinch the seal against the fitting and cut a lump out of it, leading to leaks
All in with the two step process (insert into pipe, pipe into fitting) you can more easily see if you've nipped a seal
It will only take a few seconds to dismantle the joint if you're concerned, and check the seal (fully unscrew the collar; it will be tough but apply force)
If it's metal, be aware that some push fit pipe companies, like Hep2O, do have metal inserts.
Be wary of mixing brands; use the same brand of insert and pipe, as the outer diameter of the insert matching to the inner diameter of the pipe is the important bit where cross brand variance comes in. Most pipe should be compatible outer diameter for cross brand use of fittings, unless brand X's too-large-for-brand-Y's-pipe has been used, swelling the OD of the brand Y pipe
If you got it fully fitted (did you cut the pipe on its printed markings and insert so far as to get to the next marking?) it will probably be ok; the only concern I have with such relates to how the cut end of the pipe interacts with the seals.
The normal process I follow for push fit (JG) is:
Cut the pipe square on one of the * markers
Run a Stanley knife round the inner diameter to put a slight chamfer on the edge
Push a superseal insert in; the chamfer helps avoid the pipe destroying the seal on the stem of the insert
The end of the pipe now has a chamfer on the outer edge thanks to the insert
The whole lot goes into a JG fitting all the way up to the next * on the pipe and the locking collar tightened
-
When doing what you've done it would be wise to put a slight chamfer on both the inner and the outer edges of the pipe, because it is the cut end of the pipe itself that must slide past the main seal in the fitting without damaging it.
When a pipe end is cut square it is very easy for it to pinch the seal against the fitting and cut a lump out of it, leading to leaks
All in with the two step process (insert into pipe, pipe into fitting) you can more easily see if you've nipped a seal
It will only take a few seconds to dismantle the joint if you're concerned, and check the seal (fully unscrew the collar; it will be tough but apply force)
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Thanks Robin.
I have actually removed a few of these connectors as whomever had put them in had them stacked on top of each other, i.e. one for sink, one for shower, one for bath. So I can try dismantling the one pictured to see if I can get the insert out.
As to cutting the pipe on the markers, I've seen that demonstrated for the speedfit and hep2o systems on YouTube videos before I started trying to get into this pipework. I'm not too sure how old the piping I'm dealing with is but it doesn't have these markings. It seems to be Floplast PE-X and it's semi rigid. Cut a bit back last night and it seems to have a thin metallic ring in the centre of the piping. From looking online, it's maybe Flofit+.
I'm not too sure what the push fit fixtures are though. Here's a picture of the current temp set up:-
If you zoom in closely on that top elbow, it has symbol which looks like "SP" but I couldn't find anything from that...
Hey great, thanks!
I googled that and exact same symbol on this:-
So it's not a "SP" just a squiggly SF logo! What an idiot I am...
Cheers.
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Pictured fittings are JG (John Guest) SpeedFit. They stylise to join the J to the G thus (red line is my emphasis):
Flomasta fittings look similar but the grip grooves on FM go all the way across the collar, on JG they dont
Flomasta fittings look similar but the grip grooves on FM go all the way across the collar, on JG they dont
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Inserts come in both plastic and metal .
They are all John Guest (JG) Speedfit push fit couplers.
JG inserts are either plain pipe inserts or super seal inserts, bother are plastic, one has o-rings the other doesn't. If the insert is metal then it's a non JG insert that's been used and it may not be as tight into the pipe as they should be. That means the insert can be left in the fitting when the pipe's removed as the insert can hang up on the o-ring especially if it's been in there a while.
Nut on the fitting just undoes and the insert with the washer and o-ring will pull out, reinsert the washer and o-ring the same way it came out with a little silicone grease on the o-ring and as long as it's not marked/torn and nice and soft then it can probably be re-used. .
JG inserts are either plain pipe inserts or super seal inserts, bother are plastic, one has o-rings the other doesn't. If the insert is metal then it's a non JG insert that's been used and it may not be as tight into the pipe as they should be. That means the insert can be left in the fitting when the pipe's removed as the insert can hang up on the o-ring especially if it's been in there a while.
Nut on the fitting just undoes and the insert with the washer and o-ring will pull out, reinsert the washer and o-ring the same way it came out with a little silicone grease on the o-ring and as long as it's not marked/torn and nice and soft then it can probably be re-used. .
Turned out they were just the super seal inserts - I had removed the tee leading to the cold water 22m copper before reassembling and had a closer look / pulled the insert out. For some reason they were brown stained before the first seal o-ring which was what made me think it was copper insert.
Anyway as I was saying I removed both the cold bath tap tee, the sink / toilet tee and the elbow which was originally feeding the shower PE-X piping and reassembled it as per that last pic with just the elbow off to the sink. But it started leaking on the top elbow connector!
I guess all my pulling the pipes out with the inserts staying in place damaged the o-ring seals or something but anyway a quick visit to toolstation and I got some more super seals and a push stop end cap and all seems good for now...
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I tend to find that a large proportion of the time the inserts snag on the teeth of the locking ring no matter how well the user depresses the unlocking collar.. Fortunately JG come apart easily when undoing the nut and it's usually the fastest way to retrieve the insert
If I was aiming to reuse an insert without removing it I'd probably put a light chamfer on the inner and outer edges of the cut end to ward against nicking the seals, but I do think it's best to apply inserts to pipes before applying pipes to fittings ..
For experimental purposes, my outside taps, I have one at the front and one at the back, are both done with a mix of different brands of pipe and fittings, just whatever I could scrape together for free at the time. There is not one insert of any type in any of the joints. I figured that as it was outside it would be safe to try it, just to see if any joints failed, none of them have, and it's been like that for years.
As I was saying it turned out I did just have speedfit super seal inserts. They were just stuck in place and had some brown staining past the last o-ring! It's a good idea to try things like you've done though - so much contradictory advice re these push fittings. Not sure how much is from old school solder copper only guys resistant to change and how much is genuine question marks over longevity over these fixtures.
I made another thread yesterday questioning what would be best in terms of isolation valves between my kitchen and the bathroom above:-
Is It Good Practice / Make Sense To Fit Isolation Valves Between Floors?
Hi Folks I'm in the process now of redoing the bathroom, as I needed to remove some lead waste piping, which has lead to removing the bath, etc. My question now - whilst everything is out / capped - is whether I should fit some isolation valves in our kitchen below? The pipes are boxed in but...
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Thing I'm wondering there is what's best if I cut the cold water PEX running up there - I've read you can use compression fittings on these push fits but you must use the inserts in case the pipe collapses in. And you can't use the super seal ones either or the extra o-rings get in the way or something. So have you got any isolation valves in your set up? Would be good to know if they're standing up okay...
I have two stop cocks outside, but if they are compression fittings they will have inserts. I only didn't use them on the pushfit fittings.
I didn't match any inserts or pipes to any fittings, they are all mixed up.
I didn't match any inserts or pipes to any fittings, they are all mixed up.
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