New High tech cameras to enforce 20mph roads

Let me ask all the refuseniks this.

Let's imagine that every single one of your criticisms is true.

Let's imagine that there are no safety benefits, just as many accidents happen and just as many people are killed and injured, and just as much vehicle damage has to be repaired.

Let's imagine that there are no emissions benefits, there's no reduction in noise pollution, there are no reductions in particulates, there's no reduction in road wear.

Let's imagine that nobody is more inclined to walk or cycle, or to let their children walk or cycle to school.

Why are councils implementing them? We know it's not for financial reasons as -

a) Enforcement is virtually non-existent, so therefore fines are virtually non-existent.
b) Even if (a) were not true speeding fines do not go to councils.

So with no benefits, and no financial incentives, what is the motive behind 20mph limits?
 
motorbiking said:
Take a look on google maps, miles and miles of A roads with 20mph limits on them. A232 for example
Click to expand...

Please explain why that is a bad thing.


www.roadsafetyngos.org

30 km/h zones - Global Alliance of NGOs for Road Safety

Key asks What we mean by it[1] Road environments designed to reduce vehicle speeds to 30 km/h (20 mph) or lower. This is achieved through 30 km/h (20 mph) posted speed limits, supported by speed enforcement, traffic calming measures, and pedestrian facilities to ensure the safety of pedestrians...
www.roadsafetyngos.org www.roadsafetyngos.org
 
Brigadier said:
Especially when what should realistically be for the residents are used as rat runs and cut throughs.
Click to expand...

I'd put money on there being a significant intersection between those opposed to 20mph limits and those opposed to LTNs.
 
Highway Man said:
Nonsense, we are removing lots of 20mph restrictions on roads.
Click to expand...
Glad to see that.There are many cases where it seems to me 30 wouldn't be any more dangerous.

In contrast to the assessment of the pdf's numbers given above, when I asked AI, on the way home, what the numbers were, what it presented was fairly convincingly a benefit in the reduced speeds.. I did have to ask for the numbers, some of the "trends" were misleading.
One I remember was a 75% reduction in children's deaths. Actual number was from 4, to 1. That's not statistically meaningful.

Some of the measures for "traffic calming" seem to be immature, ill targeted. Like the speed pillows that motorbikes can scream between. (I've done that, to a point.) Humps of unregulated dimensions, some of which break car springs - I've had that too.
They put bus stops out into the road so the traffic has to stop - and they see that as a great way to reduce car speeds. Stopping traffic doesn't make it safe!
An interesting - to me - answer would be for orange cameras to go up, which impose small fines, with the profit going to the council, and no penalty points. The cameras would then be self - financing. At the moment, all fines go to hmg, councils being without the necessary authorities.
People wouldn't be so offended, I think.

Blanket 20mph seems very inefficient. I'd bet the accidents happen disproportionately in specific places.
Signage is bad too, how about say a GREEN central line where the limit is 20, so it's obvious?
 
Justin Passing said:
Glad to see that.There are many cases where it seems to me 30 wouldn't be any more dangerous.

In contrast to the assessment of the pdf's numbers given above, when I asked AI, on the way home, what the numbers were, what it presented was fairly convincingly a benefit in the reduced speeds.. I did have to ask for the numbers, some of the "trends" were misleading.
One I remember was a 75% reduction in children's deaths. Actual number was from 4, to 1. That's not statistically meaningful.

Some of the measures for "traffic calming" seem to be immature, ill targeted. Like the speed pillows that motorbikes can scream between. (I've done that, to a point.) Humps of unregulated dimensions, some of which break car springs - I've had that too.
They put bus stops out into the road so the traffic has to stop - and they see that as a great way to reduce car speeds. Stopping traffic doesn't make it safe!
An interesting - to me - answer would be for orange cameras to go up, which impose small fines, with the profit going to the council, and no penalty points. The cameras would then be self - financing. At the moment, all fines go to hmg, councils being without the necessary authorities.
People wouldn't be so offended, I think.

Blanket 20mph seems very inefficient. I'd bet the accidents happen disproportionately in specific places.
Signage is bad too, how about say a GREEN central line where the limit is 20, so it's obvious?
Click to expand...
Schools and hospitals are big for 20mph limits, they will remain.
 
Highway Man said:
Nonsense, we are removing lots of 20mph restrictions on roads.
Click to expand...
A lot in wales have been reversed according to sources.
morqthana said:
Let me ask all the refuseniks this.

Let's imagine that every single one of your criticisms is true.

Let's imagine that there are no safety benefits, just as many accidents happen and just as many people are killed and injured, and just as much vehicle damage has to be repaired.

Let's imagine that there are no emissions benefits, there's no reduction in noise pollution, there are no reductions in particulates, there's no reduction in road wear.

Let's imagine that nobody is more inclined to walk or cycle, or to let their children walk or cycle to school.

Why are councils implementing them? We know it's not for financial reasons as -

a) Enforcement is virtually non-existent, so therefore fines are virtually non-existent.
b) Even if (a) were not true speeding fines do not go to councils.

So with no benefits, and no financial incentives, what is the motive behind 20mph limits?
Click to expand...
No companies to make money from the work, no lobbying from victims whose judgement is clouded with grief. No politicians promising to fix things, no NIMBYs who don’t want cars going through “their” streets. No traffic authorities marking their own homework desperate to show it wasn’t a waste of money.
 
Experimental blanket 20MPH is seeing some roll back on certain stretches of roads. More on others. It's here to stay. Expect to see more of it.

Dig in boyos. (y)
 
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