110V vs 230V - a dumb question?

plugwash said:
can't you just swap out the bulbs?

my floodlight was 230V. i just changed the bulb for a 110V and changed the plug
 
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supersparks said:
also allowed is 230v used on sites
but must have RCD protection at 30mA
and also disconection time max of .2seconds if i remember correctly.

For a number of years there has been this BS rumour that 230V tools would be allowed on construction sites with the us of RCD's, I have discussed this at length with people ion the HSE, Insurance Companies and Directors of a number of large National Construction Companies, I can assure you that the HSE will not allow this, the Insurance Industry will not cover the use of such tools and the MCG will not allow the use of 230V tools either.

The proposal was made aby the Guild of Master Craftsman a couple of years ago, and the HSE through it out without consideration.

With the exception of accidents amongst electricians (working on 400V/230V supplies to sites) and others from overhead lines/ hitting buried and unmarked cables there have been no electrical fatalities on construction sites in the Uk for some 28 years (HSE figures), however on the continent where they use 230V tools/lighting, sometimes in conjunction with RCD's, there are around 500 deaths annually across the EU member states as a result of the use of 230V tools and lighting.
 
supersparks said:
also allowed is 230v used on sites
but must have RCD protection at 30mA
and also disconection time max of .2seconds if i remember correctly.

AFAIK, floodlighting on site can be 230V but portable tools must be 110V.

any1 want to confirm this?
 
Area floodlighting on construction sites may be 230V so long as it is supplied by SWA and the panel it is fed from is protected by a Variable Time Variable load RCD, whether directly in the panle feeding the lighting or the supply onto the site.

All lighting inside a construction site, on the scaffolding (Except floodlighting) and usually in publicly accessible areas (scaffolding over walkways) must be 110V and fed using Arctic Yellow Cable (1.5 or larger)
 
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just as a matter of intrest FWL, how do you get time to speek to just about every trade body on every single topic avaliable?

i have notes someware detailing all this and im 98% sure they allow rcd protection at 30mA, at the discression of the HSO on the site....

and 0.2 disconection is the time allowed on site for instant disconnection ;)
 
supersparks said:
just as a matter of intrest FWL, how do you get time to speek to just about every trade body on every single topic avaliable?

i have notes someware detailing all this and im 98% sure they allow rcd protection at 30mA, at the discression of the HSO on the site....

and 0.2 disconection is the time allowed on site for instant disconnection ;)

It's called email and letters, as well as phone calls sometimes, but also due to things I have done in the recent past I have had reason to be in the same room as many of those people I mentioned in my earlier post, and I simply asked the question..perhaps I am just a nosey bar steward? :D or it could simply be that as a former Company Director responsible for the Health and Safety of our employees I took a personal interest in HSE Guidelines and related Legislation, as I did when a Consultant Project Engineer running a team of Guys a few years back..take your pick.

All 230V and 400V supplies on Site must be ultimately protected by an RCD, usually in the Temporary Dis Boards used to feed things such as site offices, Transformers, Canteens etc. These RCD's are usualy of the Variable time, Variable Trip type so they can be tailored to the site in question to give maximum protection with minimal nuisance tripping. I think that some of these rumours about the use of 230V on site has arison from this use of RCD's onsite.

If you think about it, 230V and 400V are used on site, as mentioned, to power site offices and the 110V transformers for tools and lighting as well as the afore-mentioned area floodlighting, so it is not a total ban. This is where many may have been confused by the regulation change a number of years ago that meant these had to be RCD protected. However from what I have been told, as stated in the earlier post, the use of 230V power tools on a construction site is still illegal in the UK and will remain so for the forseeable future.
 
andrew2022 said:
just as easy to use 110V
Aside from lugging a transformer around.

I'll bet there are plenty of plumbers, carpenters, decorators, kitchen fitters, gardeners etc who use 230V tools when they are working in someone's house or garden....
 
One thing missed in the replies apart from the lower voltage is the inherent safety of the transformers used, in being what's called double wound and therefore the output has no reference to the input mains and the earthing system of the normal mains in effect the output supply is isolated and unique to the power tool connected.
 
kendor said:
One thing missed in the replies apart from the lower voltage is the inherent safety of the transformers used, in being what's called double wound and therefore the output has no reference to the input mains and the earthing system of the normal mains in effect the output supply is isolated and unique to the power tool connected.

no. 110V Tx are centre tapped to earth. it is not seperated
 
ban-all-sheds said:
andrew2022 said:
just as easy to use 110V
Aside from lugging a transformer around.

I'll bet there are plenty of plumbers, carpenters, decorators, kitchen fitters, gardeners etc who use 230V tools when they are working in someone's house or garden....

i have to admit it can be annoyin havin 2 take a Tx around houses expecially if your only driling 1 hole... but i do since my good drill is 110V and there is no point in buyin a new 230V version
 
True.

If, OTOH, you only ever worked in occupied, domestic houses or similar, and never "on site", would you buy 230V or 110V tools?
 
ban-all-sheds said:
True.

If, OTOH, you only ever worked in occupied, domestic houses or similar, and never "on site", would you buy 230V or 110V tools?
possibly 230
 
andrew2022 said:
kendor said:
One thing missed in the replies apart from the lower voltage is the inherent safety of the transformers used, in being what's called double wound and therefore the output has no reference to the input mains and the earthing system of the normal mains in effect the output supply is isolated and unique to the power tool connected.

no. 110V Tx are centre tapped to earth. it is not seperated
then they have changed since i was on sites the centre tap was never wired to the supply earth.
 
kendor said:
andrew2022 said:
kendor said:
One thing missed in the replies apart from the lower voltage is the inherent safety of the transformers used, in being what's called double wound and therefore the output has no reference to the input mains and the earthing system of the normal mains in effect the output supply is isolated and unique to the power tool connected.

no. 110V Tx are centre tapped to earth. it is not seperated
then they have changed since i was on sites the centre tap was never wired to the supply earth.

i even took mine apart just because i was curious.... the centre tapping is connected to a terminal block along with the supply earth
 
supersparks said:
just as a matter of intrest FWL, how do you get time to speek to just about every trade body on every single topic avaliable?

i have notes someware detailing all this and im 98% sure they allow rcd protection at 30mA, at the discression of the HSO on the site....

and 0.2 disconection is the time allowed on site for instant disconnection ;)

It's called email and letters, as well as phone calls sometimes, but also due to things I have done in the recent past I have had reason to be in the same room as many of those people I mentioned in my earlier post, and I simply asked the question..perhaps I am just a nosey bar steward? :D or it could simply be that as a former Company Director responsible for the Health and Safety of our employees I took a personal interest in HSE Guidelines and related Legislation, as I did when a Consultant Project Engineer running a team of Guys a few years back..take your pick.

All 230V and 400V supplies on Site must be ultimately protected by an RCD, usually in the Temporary Dis Boards used to feed things such as site offices, Transformers, Canteens etc. These RCD's are usualy of the Variable time, Variable Trip type so they can be tailored to the site in question to give maximum protection with minimal nuisance tripping. I think that some of these rumours about the use of 230V on site has arison from this use of RCD's onsite.

If you think about it, 230V and 400V are used on site, as mentioned, to power site offices and the 110V transformers for tools and lighting as well as the afore-mentioned area floodlighting, so it is not a total ban. This is where many may have been confused by the regulation change a number of years ago that meant these had to be RCD protected. However from what I have been told, as stated in the earlier post, the use of 230V power tools on a construction site is still illegal in the UK and will remain so for the forseeable future.

Got a similar problem. Being a specialist company working all over the world, we were surprised to hear that 110V exist in England. So for tools with high power demand we would have to swop to 400V which interestingly is allowed, just 230V are prohibited by some smart HSE regualtions. Since we manufacture our equipment ourselves this is nothing you get off the shelf for small money and scrap it again after leaving the island. So our strategy will be to ignore the 110V and come with our standard 230V equipment and try to get exception permits.

Knowing that England was very late in introducing RCDs and is still not using RCDs on every outlet, and that they use odd oversized heavy plugs with a fuse inside the plug :eek: we'll try a counterstrike.

I'll put a warning in the method statement for our personnel with Swiss accident insurance that they are not allowed to touch any 110V item because there is no RCD in the whole system which of course is prohibited according swiss rules and would hamper the accident insurance coverage.
See what the HSE overregulators say to that.

By the way: The English RCDs (if any) have to be without delay. Elsewhere it is 400ms at nominal fault current (30mA) and 40ms at 5 times the nominal fault current (150mA)
 

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