12kw water heater - cost for electric installation ?

[ban-all-sheds]

The fees are the same as for a Building Notice submission.

 

[Paul_C]

Ban all sheds. Doing the work under a building notice has worked for me on at least three occasions. It is not risky, it is not lunacy provided that you follow the iee onsite guide and have some common sense.

Risk:

Finite, because if you don't tell LABC how you will comply with P1, and they decide, for whatever reason, that they don't like what you did, you'll have problems.

Reward: ZERO.

Reward: No need to draw up complete plans for a simple job which doesn't really need all the trouble and time taken to draw up a full set of plans.

The fees are the same as for a Building Notice submission.

Checking the current fees for my local authority, I came upon this item which says that in some cases they are now charging more for a building notice than for the combined plan & inspection fees:

http://www.northnorfolk.org/planning/241.asp

(Doesn't apply to purely electrical works.)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Reward: No need to draw up complete plans for a simple job which doesn't really need all the trouble and time taken to draw up a full set of plans.

I am truly and genuinely gobsmacked, (and TBH, a tad horrified) at the number of people here who have no idea what the term "full plans submission" actually means.


It does not mean that you have to do drawings.

Drawings are used for actual building works because there is no other way to adequately describe them.

But in this case the plan is "To run around 15m of cable (10mm or would 16mmbe better ?) from the heater to the consumer unit, put in a mcb (50A or 63A ?), pinning the cabling to the wall in the cellar."

So, smartened up, and with "All work to be done in compliance with BS 7671"¹ added is all that is needed to describe the work and how compliance with P1 will be achieved.

There is nothing relevant that the council needs to know to evaluate the application which requires a drawing showing where the cable will run. (And if, by any chance there is, better to find out at the start by them asking, than near the end when they turn up and say "don't like that".)

¹ Being aware, of course, what that entails regarding testing and certification.

Checking the current fees for my local authority, I came upon this item which says that in some cases they are now charging more for a building notice than for the combined plan & inspection fees:

http://www.northnorfolk.org/planning/241.asp

(Doesn't apply to purely electrical works.)

To save me looking, for electrical works does a Building Notice save you money?

 

[Paul_C]

It does not mean that you have to do drawings.

Somewhere in the documentation my local council states that detailed drawings are required with a full plans submission. But maybe they don't really mean that when it comes to minor electrical works.

But in this case the plan is "To run around 15m of cable (10mm or would 16mmbe better ?) from the heater to the consumer unit, put in a mcb (50A or 63A ?), pinning the cabling to the wall in the cellar."

What if after starting the job you realize that there's a snag with that plan, and you need to revise it by choosing a different cable route, say increasing the length by 50% which necessitates use of a larger cable?

To save me looking, for electrical works does a Building Notice save you money?

No. Looking at the current schedule of charges for domestic buildings, the building notice is more expensive for the erection/conversion of a new dwelling and for a loft conversion. For everything else at the moment, the building notice charge is still the same as the plan & inspection fees combined.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Somewhere in the documentation my local council states that detailed drawings are required with a full plans submission. But maybe they don't really mean that when it comes to minor electrical works.

They're amenable to being asked things like that.

What if after starting the job you realize that there's a snag with that plan, and you need to revise it by choosing a different cable route, say increasing the length by 50% which necessitates use of a larger cable?

Then maybe you should have planned it better

Or been less prescriptive. My council was happy with "Electrical installation work in connection with the extension of a domestic dwelling."

 

[Paul_C]

Then maybe you should have planned it better

Maybe, but sometimes it's easier to change one's detailed plans for the job when an obstacle is encountered after starting.

My council was happy with "Electrical installation work in connection with the extension of a domestic dwelling."

Can that really be classed as a "full plan" in any way?

If so, then in answer to the question you posed about stating how one intends to comply with the requirement in P1, it would seem that "Compliance with Part P1 of the Building Regulations will be achieved by making reasonable provision for safety for those using and maintaining the electrical system" would suffice.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

No - that's the requirement. Just saying you'll do it isn't enough, as you have to do it.

You need to say how you'll do it. In my case I said it would be via compliance with BS 7671.

What I can't comment on though is what their attitude would have been if I couldn't show that I was competent, but drawings showing the positions of accessories wouldn't have made a difference to that, neither would details of circuit design, as BCOs are (probably) not qualified to judge the correctness of those.

 

[Paul_C]

as BCOs are (probably) not qualified to judge the correctness f those.

Which begs the question as to just why (probably) unqualified LABC inspectors are carrying out such inspections in the first place. And it also explains why with what limited knowledge some of them have, they start to balk at anything which differs from the "norm" they've seen, even though there's absolutely nothing wrong with an alternative arrangement.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

And it explains why so many try to refuse to allow DIY electrical work, or insist that the DIYer get it tested himself, etc.

 

[Paul_C]

So basically they're not competent to carry out the inspections required, then to try and keep that quiet they'll invent their own rules and try to insist upon things they have no legal authority to insist upon. Nice, huh?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Said it before -

Never assume those in charge know what they are doing.

Look at Parliament.