12v Battery Lighting Options

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Hi, I am wanting to run some lighting in a garage, using a 12v leisure battery.

Just looking at options.

I am unsure about a few things, so please could you answer -

1. Are 12v CFL Edison screw bulbs like these http://warmsoles.co.uk/product/12v-cfl-lamps-for-solar-lighting-systems-caravans/ just used with standard bulb holders and wall light switches?

2. Will a Floodlight such as this http://www.sunstore.co.uk/10w-12v-LED-Flood-Light.html simply connect direct to a 12v leisure/car battery and work, perhaps again with a standard wall light switch to operate it.

3. If a 240v floodlight has a built in transformer to take it down to 12v, does that mean it will also work when connected to a 12v battery?

Any other options on suitable lighting for a 12v leisure battery would be appreciated.

Thanks!
 
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1) Yes it will use a standard ES bulb holder.
2) Yes it will connect directly and work fine although the beam angle might be too much of a spot light.
3) I doubt they have a transformer. If you are talking about a LED type then the power supply will be a constant current switch mode type if it is relativly decent or if it is very cheap just a capacitive dropper. Either way you can't just connect the bulb to 12V.

I have used something like this before :-
https://www.ledhut.co.uk/led-strip-...-high-power-chips-per-metre-5-metre-roll.html
You can get them much cheaper on ebay. These are the '5050' LED size which is the brighter type and you can get them in cool, neutral and warm white. They are stick on but when I fitted them in a kitchen they were attached to an oak beam so I used some fittings similar to cable clips to hold them as they won't stick well to the oak due to the heavy grain.
LED's can fail and the good thing about the strips is that they are made up of sections of 3 LEDs in series so if one fails you only loose a strip of 3 LEDs and everything else works. The waterproof silicone coated ones helps protect from any damp.
You can also get inline dimmers for only a few pounds on ebay so you can dim it if you find them a bit bright.
Another thing you can do is if you use a mains switch with two outputs (one for each position) you can have the off position send the power to an moment sensor and perhaps another dimmer and to the LED strip. This way if there is movement the light can come on dimly making it easier to find the light switch and turn it on normally etc...
 
Thanks very much for your reply, excellent info, I appreciate that. At the moment then, I am favouring having two 12v 10w floodlights (I have a portable rechargeable 5w floodlight which I have held up to test as I too was concerned about it being too much of a spotlight, but it seemed great), at opposite sides of the garage, wired to a standard double light switch then to the leisure battery with an inline fuse. 12v lights are not such a common thing, but they are out there on the internet.
 
You always have the option of modifying a mains LED floodlight. The 10W variety can have two different types of LED inside. One runs at about 12V and the other at about 33V.
The 33V type would actually be the easiest as you can pick up a DC-DC Boost power supply off ebay cheaply (e.g http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250W-DC-D...ile-Power-Supply-10A-LED-Driver-/322059268969). You would need one with a current limit as you will want to set the voltage to around 35V and then set the current limit to provide the 10W to the LED.
It might actually be easier to get a 20W or a 30W type and that way you are practically guaranteed to get one which runs off 33V. You can then run the LEDs under powered and increase their lifespan
 
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Yes certainly worth a go. That arrangement of LEDs is probably going to be more reliable anyway and they are probably 1W units so going to be run a little under rated. It would not be too difficult to replace a LED if one does fail. If one fails I would expect it to only take out one of the horizontal strips of 3 and you can tell which one has failed normally because it has a black dot on it.
 
For what it is worth I bought 10 LED flood lamps 12 volt 10 watt for event lighting from

https://www.sunshinesolar.co.uk/prodshow/10W___12V_LED_Flood_Light_/G1012VGB.html

and they have been used in all weathers. Very good quality based on their survival when abused both electrically and physically

They are more expensive than lamps bought from Ebay but you get what youa pay for, ( you might get a discount )

You always have the option of modifying a mains LED floodlight.

You would need the knowledge of how to ensure spurious radio frequency radiated from the SMPS was contained.
 
Thanks again, to you both. Excellent info. Yes I don't expect the ebay ones to be brilliant, but you never know! And they are very small at a size of just 80 x 60 x 30mm. I will sleep on it but I do think I'll give them a whirl.
 
The CFL clearly states for caravans so that will work OK. However a car battery is between 14.8 and 11 volt depending if one charge or what state of discharge. These people sell bulbs for caravans and boats rated 10 - 30 volt these will work A1 on a battery be it on charge or nearly fully discharged, cheap 12 volt bulbs may work, or they may over heat, but my link does seem to be expensive I expect a small battery will drop in voltage before the bulb over heats. You have to decide if worth the money, you also could put a resistor in series to dim the lights slightly so they will not over heat.
 
Thank you for the link and info, interesting thoughts about the possibility of overheating. The lights will be run on a leisure battery however, not a car battery, they are two different animals of course. I did briefly consider the LED bulbs such as those in the link you provided, they are quite expensive as you say but a definite option.
 
I am a cheap skate and would likely use a car fuse holder with diodes across it to reduce the voltage 0.6 volt per diode. Remember they will get hot so where they have free air, if only discharged in the garage likely will start at 13 volt but will quickly drop so 0.6 volt drop should be enough by time you count the wire resistance as well.

Leisure batteries are still lead acid half way between a traction and car battery and still need fully recharging after use at least once a week or cells will sulfate, NiIron batteries can be left flat, but are heavy, once used some old ones from a bus. Milk tankers also use them. But heavy so depends how it is to be recharged. If using wind chargers or solar panels then voltage can hit around 14.4 to 14.8 if you can top up a lead acid battery then 14.8 is normal bulk charge voltage, if it is a valve regulated lead acid (VRLA) then 14.4 volt bulk charge, many chargers have a switch to change the bulk charge voltage according to battery used.
 
Thanks for your reply. I don't quite agree with your thoughts on the leisure battery, they can, and will, run for months without a charge, are happy to have a frequent deep discharge or remain topped up. Quite remarkable things when compared to a normal car battery really!
 
Well I received the lights (very quick delivery), and they are really quaility, you would assume them to be £20 each, not just over £3. They are solid, good items. They are actually rated at 12v-24v, so the previous concerns as regards to overheating need not apply. Althought I got the set of four, I will only need to use one or two as they are so bright. Though only 10w, the area they light is massive from the leisure battery I have, when I did a test in a dark unlit garage. So really pleased with them! Thanks again for all the replies.
 
PbSO4 will harden with time, it does not really matter how the electrodes and separators are arranged it happens, it can to some extent be converted back by a long float charge and also is not as much of a problem where the amps drawn are low, it will result in the capacity of the battery being reduced, but we tend not to notice this with most applications. The golfer may notice he only gets 16 holes instead of 18 holes before the battery fails, and the mobility scooter may in the same way be reduced from 18 miles to 10 miles, but point is most people don't try to do 18 miles in a mobility scooter so until down to 2 miles unlikely to notice it has failed. In fact most applications are the same, stair lifts are rarely required to carry 18 people up the stairs in quick succession so unlikely to notice damage to battery until nearly on it's last legs.

With the caravan it is hard to work out what a battery has done, we tend not to count or time how long lights have been on, or how often the water pump is used, we may realise we can use the motor mover to get the caravan into it's parking space then it fails, but the time between getting into parking space often means doing and not doing the job also relates to last year and this year with 6 months unused and we simply put it down to old age rather than the sulphur getting hard on the plates due to poor maintenance of the battery.

Where hard PbSO4 is really noticed is the narrow boat, here we have a real problem, used every night and charged every day when engines are running first we would think no problem, however time is not on our side, it takes time to recharge batteries it does not matter how much power you have, so a 75% discharged battery will take something like 8 hours to recharge, a 50% discharged battery around 6 hours to recharge, and on average the boat engines are running more like 6 hours to 8 hours, so you need enough batteries so they are only discharged 50% and not 75% so they can recharge in time, and getting a shore power once a month to top the batteries up will really extend their life.

The other way is to push the energy into the battery quicker, stage chargers and pulse chargers can reduce the recharge time and reports from narrow boat users show these chargers can increase battery life from a year to 5 years or more as they ensure the battery has been fully recharged and not left in a part discharged states for in some cases months before they get shore power to fully recharge the battery. Today solar panels have really helped to stop batteries becoming flat due to self discharge, even a small panel in a caravan or boat window can stop the battery ending up as ballast by start of next season.

With open cells one can at least use a hydrometer to measure state of the battery, but with VRLA the volts can be miss leading, this is true of many batteries, with alkaline batteries often the output is measured using a small chip to be able to show state of charge, as the battery fails the charge indicator shows wrong info, ask mobile phone users, it is the same with simple suppressed zero voltmeter with lead acid, it gives an indication but will not show when capacity is reduced due to hard PbSO4 which will not convert back.

OK like not using a dimmer with quartz bulbs, we ignore the problems and put up with premature replacement, but to keep the battery good needs charging once a month.
 

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