17th IEEE

[StuDH]

On delivery of a new cooker plus connection, I was told it could not be connected as the cooker socket was more than 2 metres away.
I protested that this was wrong ( I have a 15th IEEE certificate from years ago, so I have a working knowledge of the regs), I maintained that any wiring correctly installed under the regulations of the day, is valid today and only new installations have to comply to the 17th edition.
The cooker was purchased from Currys, but it was their delivery men from a firm called KnowHow who made the decision not to install it.
Who was right ?

 

[JohnW2]

On delivery of a new cooker plus connection, I was told it could not be connected as the cooker socket was more than 2 metres away. I protested that this was wrong ( I have a 15th IEEE certificate from years ago, so I have a working knowledge of the regs), I maintained that any wiring correctly installed under the regulations of the day, is valid today and only new installations have to comply to the 17th edition.

Even in terms of current regulations, I'm not quite sure where that '2m rule' comes from (but someone may know!). Are you sure that it is not a requirement of the manufacturer's instructions supplied with the cooker (which, currently, the regs require the installer to comply with)?

Is this a plug-in cooker, or are we talking about hard-wiring?

Kind Regards, John

 

[StuDH]

On delivery of a new cooker plus connection, I was told it could not be connected as the cooker socket was more than 2 metres away. I protested that this was wrong ( I have a 15th IEEE certificate from years ago, so I have a working knowledge of the regs), I maintained that any wiring correctly installed under the regulations of the day, is valid today and only new installations have to comply to the 17th edition.

Even in terms of current regulations, I'm not quite sure where that '2m rule' comes from (but someone may know!). Are you sure that it is not a requirement of the manufacturer's instructions supplied with the cooker (which, currently, the regs require the installer to comply with)?

Is this a plug-in cooker, or are we talking about hard-wiring?

Kind Regards, John

Hi. This is hard wired. The CCU is 3m away from the cooker. This is the 3rd cooker we've had in this position. Previous installers had no problems with it.
Now if I were installing it in another room or even hidden away, then OK it wouldn't be right.
It's in line of sight with the cooker, just 3m and not 2m away.

 

[Taylortwocities]

There is GUIDANCE in the On Site Guide, etc that the isolation switch for a cooker should not be more than 2 metres from the appliance, But this is GUIDANCE.

In the BS7671 there is no REGULATION about this distance, in fact there is no REGULATION that an isolation switch is required for a cooker/oven/hob…….but it is a good idea!

 

[deadshort]

Hi if the cooker was purchased from a well known high street department store, that does not surprise me. Sometimes they just don't want the hassle or are running behind schedule.

DS

 

[JohnW2]

Hi. This is hard wired. The CCU is 3m away from the cooker. This is the 3rd cooker we've had in this position. Previous installers had no problems with it. ... It's in line of sight with the cooker, just 3m and not 2m away.

As TTC has reminded me, there is guidance in relation to the 2m limit, but he has confirmed my belief that there is no actual regulation which imposes any limit - so they can't really refuse to install it on the grounds that it violates any regulations (even current,'17th Ed' ones). However, as I said, are you sure that the cooker's instructions don't impose a limit - since, as I said, current regulations do essentially compel them to comply with such regulations (something which is hopefully changing a bit next year!)?

Kind Regards, John
Edit: Crucial missing word added!

 

[securespark]

I concur with general opinion.

Historically, though, it's as follows:


I often quote the 2m rule, but as I think Ban pointed out in a previous thread, I think the 16th/17th does not actually mention distance. Yes, the OSG & BRG advise 2m, but it is not set in stone.

Just for amusement value, this is the history of the "2m" rule from the 14th onwards:

The 14th said,

A29.

Every stationary cooking appliance shall be controlled by a switch separate from the appliance and installed within 6 feet of the appliance. Where two SCA's are installed in one room, one switch may be used to control the two appliances provided that neither appliance is more than 6 feet from the switch.

The 15th said,

476-20.

Every fixed or stationary household cooking appliance shall be controlled by a switch separate from the appliance and placed within 2m of the appliance. Where two SCA's are installed in one room of household premises, one switch may be used to control both appliances provided that neither appliance is more than 2m from the switch.

The 16th said,

476-03-04

Every fixed or stationary appliance which may give rise to a hazard in normal use and is connected to the supply other than by means of a plug & socket complying with regulation 537-05-04 shall be provided with a means of interrupting the supply on load. The operation of the means of interrupting the supply on load shall be placed so as not to put the operator in danger. This means may be incorporated into the appliance or, if separate from the appliance, shall be in a readily accessible position. Where two or more appliances are installed in the same room, one interrupting means may be used to control all the appliances.

 

[securespark]

Think this is what you meant to say!!

Hi. This is hard wired. The CCU is 3m away from the cooker. This is the 3rd cooker we've had in this position. Previous installers had no problems with it. ... It's in line of sight with the cooker, just 3m and not 2m away.

As TTC has reminded me, there is guidance in relation to the 2m limit, but he has confirmed my belief that there is no actual regulation which imposes any limit - so they can't really refuse to install it on the grounds that it violates any regulations (even current,'17th Ed' ones). However, as I said, are you sure that the cooker's instructions don't impose a limit - since, as I said, current regulations do essentially compel them to comply with such regulations (something which is hopefully changing a bit next year!)?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Think this is what you meant to say!!

Indeed it was - I've edited it accordingly. Thanks for picking this up!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Hi if the cooker was purchased from a well known high street department store, that does not surprise me. Sometimes they just don't want the hassle or are running behind schedule.

Or if the small print says that the hapless customer still has to pay, or pay something, if they turn up and "find" that the electrics are "unsuitable", maybe they look for reasons to "find" that the electrics are "unsuitable".

 

[deadshort]

M, so ,it comply when it was fitted ! But- it does now


Kind regards,

Ds

 

[JohnW2]

M, so ,it comply when it was fitted ! But- it does now

Do I take it that you mean that it did not comply when fitted, but does now (which seems to probably be the case)?

Kind Regards, John

 

[deadshort]

M, so ,it did not comply when it was fitted ! But- it does now

Do I take it that you mean that it did not comply when fitted, but does now (which seems to probably be the case)?

Kind Regards, John

Yes that's what I mean

 

[EFLImpudence]

Perhaps it is because the instructions state that you should use two metres of cable to connect the oven.
That is so you have room to insert the oven and remove it without straining the cable.

Maybe they only carry two metre lengths of cable.
I think the company in question use any excuse to avoid fitting after you have paid for it.

I have known them refuse because the circuit was not protected by a 45A MCB - whose is?

 

[JohnW2]

Perhaps it is because the instructions state that you should use two metres of cable to connect the oven. That is so you have room to insert the oven and remove it without straining the cable.

Indeed - that's really a variant of....

However, as I said, are you sure that the cooker's instructions don't impose a limit - since, as I said, current regulations do essentially compel them to comply with such regulations (something which is hopefully changing a bit next year!)?

Kind Regards, John