1850s stud wall - what will I find?

[TheFew]

Hi,

I have a house that dates from the 1850s and I have started to remove a stud wall from the hallway to give the area more light and space. Part of the stud wall that I have removed was recent timber and plasterboard. The rest seems to be lathes and plaster and may be the original dating from the 1850's.

I have removed the plaster and the stud framework is all that is left, but I have some reservations about removing it before checking what the implications may be.

Please see the below...

Before:

The stud wall to be removed is to the right hand side of the door frame, including above the door frame. Note the roof beam to the left hand side of the doorway.

The view from the other side.


After:

Plaster gone, framework left.

Plaster gone, framework left.

This is the left hand side of the door frame. It seems that blocks of wood have been included in the brick work wall (presumably to give them something to nail the door frame too). Any ideas on the best way to remove the door frame and the nails without hurting the brick wall and the timber inside it?

The end of the roof beam mentioned earlier sits on top of this wall, so it seems to be structural and load bearing!

Looking up at the frame work, the timbers seem to be well into the loft area (as far as I can tell). If I rip this out will it cause any issue? What do you think I will find? Just the lathes for the loft floor? Presumably this frame work won't be structural at all?

Looking at the bottom of the frame work. It seems that this may have been in place before the floor boards were laid, as it is recessed below the level of the floor boards. What do you think I will find if I remove it?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

 

[mfarrow]

I'd be wary about fire regulations. I assume the house has 3+ storeys?

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Honest answer to 'what will I find'?- God alone knows, could be all sorts of bizarre stuff going on.

Generally Victorian stud walls weren't loadbearing but you need to determine that by looking above the wall and seeing what is there.

Re floorboards above bottom of stud wall- that's usual, the framework went in before the floorboards went down.

Removing the old doorframe- first make sure the frame verticals aren't doing some sort of hidden supporting job on the next floor (and/or the floor below). Once you've verified that, have a look at the head of the frame (if it was a goal you are looking at the crossbar), see if it is morticed nicely into the verticals (probably) or just spiked. If morticed then cut it each side near the verticals and hammer it (downwards) out of the way, probably best doing the same if it is spiked to be honest . Now use your Wonderbar (or equivalent) to prise the vertical away from the woodblocks in the wall. If the blocks come away with the frame then just fill the gap with a halfbrick and some mortar- no big deal, not much load at that bit of the wall.

Low odds that framework is doing anything except providing a flat surface to plaster and somewhere to hang a door but visual inspection is the only sure determinant- get up in the loft and have a look, maybe push a long drillbit up through the plaster if vertical alignment is hard to determine

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Oh yeah, fire separation of staircases can be a big deal, that looks as if it used to be a school or hospital or HMO, might want a chat with your friendly BCO (or a peruse of the Approved Docs) before going too mush further

 

[TheFew]

I'd be wary about fire regulations. I assume the house has 3+ storeys?

I can see why you may think that. But the house only has two floors, but does have two stair cases leading from the ground floor to the second floor. The secondary staircase is a spiral job, that leads to a downstairs exit.

Before I bought the place it was a B&B and they seem to have installed a full fire alarm system and the relevant fire precautions.

I am just removing the fire doors and the associated walls to give the hall some space and light. As there was no further staircase going up, I didn't think this would be an issue. There is a further two bedroom doors (one a self closing, fire resistant quality door) between the two stair cases. So that should be enough me thinks.

ta

 

[TheFew]

Oh yeah, fire separation of staircases can be a big deal, that looks as if it used to be a school or hospital or HMO, might want a chat with your friendly BCO (or a peruse of the Approved Docs) before going too mush further

It used to be a B&B. Please see my other comment

 

[TheFew]

Honest answer to 'what will I find'?- God alone knows, could be all sorts of bizarre stuff going on.

Generally Victorian stud walls weren't loadbearing but you need to determine that by looking above the wall and seeing what is there.

Re floorboards above bottom of stud wall- that's usual, the framework went in before the floorboards went down.

Removing the old doorframe- first make sure the frame verticals aren't doing some sort of hidden supporting job on the next floor (and/or the floor below). Once you've verified that, have a look at the head of the frame (if it was a goal you are looking at the crossbar), see if it is morticed nicely into the verticals (probably) or just spiked. If morticed then cut it each side near the verticals and hammer it (downwards) out of the way, probably best doing the same if it is spiked to be honest . Now use your Wonderbar (or equivalent) to prise the vertical away from the woodblocks in the wall. If the blocks come away with the frame then just fill the gap with a halfbrick and some mortar- no big deal, not much load at that bit of the wall.

Low odds that framework is doing anything except providing a flat surface to plaster and somewhere to hang a door but visual inspection is the only sure determinant- get up in the loft and have a look, maybe push a long drillbit up through the plaster if vertical alignment is hard to determine

Thanks for the advice.


Re the door frame, there is not a floor above this, only the roof structure. So I will struggle see what is above the left hand side of the door frame due to the pitch and the fact that it cannot be seen from inside the loft J. I may however be able to see how the structure on the right-hand side of the door frame interacts with the loft. So I will give the drill-bit a go however and see what is up there!


The crossbar is morticed nicely into the verticals, so saw and hammer it is then!


Re the wooden blocks you seem to be assuming that they are half brick length. Thanks for your view, I had assumed that these might be somewhat longer and more important to the structure.


Thanks

 

[oldbutnotdead]

I found some of those wooden blocks in my own House of Pain (approx 1800 for the front, later for the rear where wedges have been used instead). If they're in good nick and are solid then leave them be, maybe chuck some wood preservative at them while you've got access. If you're plastering the wall you'll have to put mesh or something over them

 

[TheFew]

I found some of those wooden blocks in my own House of Pain (approx 1800 for the front, later for the rear where wedges have been used instead). If they're in good nick and are solid then leave them be, maybe chuck some wood preservative at them while you've got access. If you're plastering the wall you'll have to put mesh or something over them

Thanks. I think the state of them will depend on how will the spikes holding the door frame on come out

Looking at the ceiling I think the top of the frame goes through the lathes and plaster in the roof, but a trip up into the loft in a week's time should confirm for good.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Treat yourself to one of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Faithfull-NAILPULL-600mm-24-inch-Puller/dp/B001CKAR4Q and maybe one of these as well http://www.screwfix.com/p/roughneck-utility-bar-1-x-15/58202 (other brands are available ) Just noticed it says light prying- works very well on floorboards held down with cut nails!

 

[TheFew]

Treat yourself to one of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Faithfull-NAILPULL-600mm-24-inch-Puller/dp/B001CKAR4Q and maybe one of these as well http://www.screwfix.com/p/roughneck-utility-bar-1-x-15/58202 (other brands are available ) Just noticed it says light prying- works very well on floorboards held down with cut nails!

Thanks. I had never seen a nail puller before, so i am learning!

I am tempted to buy it, but the amazon reviews seem rather mixed.

 

[bernardgreen]

I'd be wary about fire regulations. I assume the house has 3+ storeys?

Some of the doors have the blue "Fire Door" labels, there is a Fire Alarm break glass above a pair Fire Extinguisher hooks.

The conclusion is that this building is likely to have been ( and may still be ) a House of Multiple Occupation. In which case Fire Regulations will be in force and alterations to wall will require Building Control approval.


EDIT

Before I bought the place it was a B&B and they seem to have installed a full fire alarm system and the relevant fire precautions.

I must train myself to read the whole thread before replying

 

[oldbutnotdead]

The nail puller isn't as good as the makers would have you believe (it makes a bit of a mess of floorboard surface when you deploy it to get sunken nails out for instance). For that job of yours (getting the nails out of the framing without moving the wall blocks) it might be ideal

 

[TheFew]

Finally got around to finishing the removal of the stud wall. I just now need to fix the holes in the ceiling and floor!

Thanks for the advice!