2 way switch and 3 lights HELP Plz>>

[svan]

I hope one of you experts can help me. This is my first ever post, so be gentle with me

I bought a metal double light switch. It has a C L1 and L" on the top and the same again on the bottom.

The lights i want the switch to control is 1. front door light. 2. Front hall light. 3 middle hall light.

# I had a double switch before that did the job.

Coming out of the wall i have 3 3 red wire and 3 black wires, each in a pair eg 1 red and 1 black. I have tried to wire the sod up, but no joy.

Please can a kind sole tell me which wire goes to witch terminal.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[fido]

I suppose you took all the wires off the old switch without putting on labels or doing a sketch of what went where? This sort of thing is beyond the call of duty as an electrician would never do this. We try to make life easy for ourselves by doing sketches or transferring wires one at a time. If all the wires went to the switch terminals there won't be any neutral wires to worry about so you could get it right eventually by trial and error. (assuming all 3 lights are only switched at this switch)If you have a mains test screwdriver you can check which of the 6 wires is live. Connect that to one of the C terminals and put a short wire link joining the two C terminals together. You can then try connecting other wires to the remaining terminals one at a time and see what happens when the switch is operated. If you want the switches down for on and they are coming as down for off you just move the wires from L to L1 or vice versa.

 

[svan]

I suppose you took all the wires off the old switch without putting on labels or doing a sketch of what went where? This sort of thing is beyond the call of duty as an electrician would never do this. We try to make life easy for ourselves by doing sketches or transferring wires one at a time. If all the wires went to the switch terminals there won't be any neutral wires to worry about so you could get it right eventually by trial and error. (assuming all 3 lights are only switched at this switch)If you have a mains test screwdriver you can check which of the 6 wires is live. Connect that to one of the C terminals and put a short wire link joining the two C terminals together. You can then try connecting other wires to the remaining terminals one at a time and see what happens when the switch is operated. If you want the switches down for on and they are coming as down for off you just move the wires from L to L1 or vice versa.

Thanks for your advice. I did make a sketch of the old set up, but what really worried me was there was a Black and a red wire going into the same L2 terminal???

I thought all of the red wires were live?!!

The old one was wire like this

C= black, L2=Red+Black, L1=Red

L2=Red,L1= nothing , C=black.

What's your views on the old setup?

 

[felix]

Here's some questions for you that might help shed light on those wires.

1) If this has always been a double switch, in what way did it control three separate lights? Did two of them always go on and off together or was it some kind of 'either - or' arrangement, ie did one of those switches turn one light on but another off at the same time?

2) Is there any two way switching tied up with this, even if the switch at other end has been removed?

3) When you listed those terminals and their wires, were you reading in straight lines across the switch or had you grouped terminals from each individual switch together?

 

[svan]

Here's some questions for you that might help shed light on those wires.

1) If this has always been a double switch, in what way did it control three separate lights? Did two of them always go on and off together or was it some kind of 'either - or' arrangement, ie did one of those switches turn one light on but another off at the same time?

2) Is there any two way switching tied up with this, even if the switch at other end has been removed?

3) When you listed those terminals and their wires, were you reading in straight lines across the switch or had you grouped terminals from each individual switch together?

1. It has always been a double switch. The first controlled the front and middle hall and the second controlled the front door light.

2. no other switches in this setup.

3. I listed thoses terminals whilst looking down on the switch when pulling off the wall and reading from left to right, top and then the bottom.

 

[felix]

Based on your latest information, here is my best guess.

C-black on top left and L2-red on bottom left belong to the same switch and their wires are in the same cable. It contros one of your two lighting circuits, probably the single one. L1 bottom middle is the third terminal on this switch and isn't needed because you don't have two way switching.

L1-red on top right and C-black on bottom right are part of the other switch and their wires are in a second cable. They switch the light(s) that the first switch didn't. L2 top middle is the third terminal of this switch and isn't needed because you don't have two way switching. The two wires in it belong to a third cable which is redundant.

Let me know if this is correct (or not) and we'll take it from there - but not tonight!

 

[svan]

Thanks for that , can you just state again which wires i should put where.?

 

[fido]

In light switches you will often find black wires are switched lives rather than neutrals so they usually take the power from the switch to the light. It is good practice to wrap a bit of red (or brown) insulation tape round the end of such wires, to show that they are live.

 

[felix]

Before you start moving wires around, I really think you should confirm my best guess about which cables they belong to. It was only a guess after all. If - AND ONLY IF - my guess is correct then move the wires over to your new switch as follows:

Wires from the top go to the top. Same for the bottom.

Wires from C go to C.

Wires from L go to L1.

Wires from L1 go to L2.

Also, fido is correct. It's good practice to put a bit of red sleeving over the ends of black wires going from switches to lights. It would be better still if you could buy flat twin and earth with different coloured cores but I suppose that's asking a bit too much.

And that reminds me ---

1) You have yet to mention the existence of any earth wires in that switch. There should be three, all connected to a terminal in the back box. If you don't have any then don't even think about putting a metal faced switch on there.

2) If the back box is plastic, take the earth wires out and put them into an earth terminal in the switch instead.

3) If the back box is plastic and the switch has no earth terminal, you're snookered. You'll have to change one of them.

 

[felix]

I've just read one of your posts more carefully and spotted something. When you said you had terminals C, L1 and L", I bet you meant to type C, L1 and L2. In this case, COM goes to C, L1 goes to L1 and L2 goes to L2. Had you put the L's the other way round, nothing nasty would have happened but your switches would have worked upside down.

 

[svan]

UPDATE.

I located the pair of wire for the 2 hall lights and wired them as follows:-

Black into Com @ top and red into L1 at the bottom.

When i wired the next pair of wires (which also has and earth) into the top middle L2= red and bottommiddle L1 black or visa versa. No activity on front light.

with the third and final set of wires. if i put the black in bottom Com and red in top right L1 or visa versa. i get sparks and trip out.

One of the switches on the double switch, now is ineffective.

Can anyone suggest a way to wire this up so it works and i don't blow any more switches?

tx

 

[felix]

Do I take it that your first pair of wires, namely black-COM-top and red-L1-bottom gave you a working light? So far so good.

Your next pair of wires, namely red-L2-top and black-L1-bottom was useless. Those terminals belong to different switches.

Your last pair of wires is a puzzle since they obviously don't control any lights. One of them, or one of the previous two, must be connected to neutral (or earth) at the other end but which one? Maybe it's one of those two wires that were in the same terminal on the old switch.

Important questions:

1) Do you still have a record of which wire went where?
2) Did the two wires in L2-top come from the same cable?
3) Where are the other two earth wires?

I'll be watching this space.