2 x Friedland wired chimes,

[JeremyG]

This has been asked a few times on the forum but not in the specific case I have so I apologise if this is "old-hat" to anyone.

I have a single push doorbell, and 2 door chimes. I have a standard Friedland 240v - 8v transformer which is wired into screw-clamps 1 and 3 of the first chime. The two cables from the push doorbell are wired into the 0 and 1 screw-clamps.

The first chime works flawlessly. So far, so good.

I also have a 2 wire cable going from this working door chime to the other door chime. Which screw-clamps should I put those wires into so that both door chimes ring when the push doorbell is activated?

I'm presuming that at the second door chime, screw-clamps 1 and 3 are needed since that is "power". From the first door chime, do I also wire them up to 1 and 3 or to 0 and 1?

Thanks in advance for the help. Here's a picture of what I have at the first (main) chime:

 

[bernardgreen]

You need to remove the mains wiring from the chime unit. Mains wiring in the chime unit creates the hazard that the push button on the door can become live.

Terminate the mains cable in a FCU and feed the transformer from that.

The slave chime should connect to T3 and OF terminals.

 

[JeremyG]

You need to remove the mains wiring from the chime unit. Mains wiring in the chime unit creates the hazard that the push button on the door can become live.

Terminate the mains cable in a FCU and feed the transformer from that.

The slave chime should connect to T3 and OF terminals.

thanks for the reply. Good point about the mains, I will relocate it outside of the chime so that it can't interfere.

In the first chime, the cable goes into T3 and 0F. Does it go into the SAME terminals in the second chime, or into T1 and T3?

 

[sparkwright]

You can't use bell wire to feed the primary (230/240 v) side of the transformer. Get some mains rated cable.

As said, you use 0F and T3 on both bells for the 'extension'.

You've got the bell upside down.

How long are the various lengths of cable you have there?

This can cause voltdrop which may make the second bell rather feint.

 

[JeremyG]

You can't use bell wire to feed the primary (230/240 v) side of the transformer. Get some mains rated cable.

As said, you use 0F and T3 on both bells for the 'extension'.

You've got the bell upside down.

How long are the various lengths of cable you have there?

This can cause voltdrop which may make the second bell rather feint.

I am using mains-rated cable, what you see there isn't bell cable despite it being 2-core and white. The bell cable is dramatically thinner. I am however using the same 2-core mains cable as the feed FROM the transformer (8V side) to the chime. It doesn't seem to cause a problem, but are you suggesting it might?

The cable lengths are short in the main chime area, and then the secondary chime is about a 20 metre cable run. This did used to work, some time ago. So I'm a bit lost as to why it doesn't work now!

I'm aware it's upside down, I had to install it that way because the chime it was replacing had been installed the same way and it was the only way to feed the mains cable in unfortunately. That doesn't seem to impact the effectiveness though, which is good.

 

[sparkwright]

Is this cable double insulated?
ie sheath and insulation?

If not, I can't see it's suitable for the 230 v side of the transformer. It will work, but not right.

 

[jtonline]

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Friedland/117.pdf

 

[JeremyG]

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Friedland/117.pdf

Sorry, how does that help in my case?

 

[jtonline]

It's a circuit diagram from the manufacturer. It confirms what goes where & why.

The master bell in your picture is wired as per diagram 4b where one side of transformer output is connected to the bellpush via terminal 1 in the chime rather than direct to the bellpush.

Follow the lines and you'll see that when you close the switch you're connecting one side of the transformer to OF and the other side is connected to T3. So if your slave bell is also connected to OF & T3 that will ring at the same time.

 

[JeremyG]

Ok thanks.

This might be a really stupid question, but could one reason it's not working be that I'm using a 1amp transformer?

If I were to put 4 x C batteries in the "remote" chime to provide power, would that potentially solve the problem? Would it require changing the wiring?

 

[bernardgreen]

DO NOT put batteries in the remote while using the transformer in the present circuit. This would result in AC power being applied to the batteries which will cause them to possibly vent gases and / or corrosive chemical.

It is possible the transformer cannot supply enough power to work two chimes. The chime appears to be marked as 15 watts while the transformer is rated at about 10 watts.

A larger transformer may solve the problem.

Those small transformers often have a thermal fuse inside which can go open circuit if the transformer is overloaded.

 

[jtonline]

Don't use battery power and transformer power together.

I think you've either wired the slave chime incorrectly, or the slave chime is faulty, or there's a break in the wire somewhere between master and slave chimes.

I don't think two chimes would overload a 1A transformer. But if you temporarily disable the master chime by removing the wires on 0F and T3 and connect them to the ends of the wires going to 0F and T3 on the slave chime, does the slave chime ring when you push the button?

(Edit: OK, just read previous comment, so transformer may be overloaded.)

 

[JeremyG]

DO NOT put batteries in the remote while using the transformer in the present circuit. This would result in AC power being applied to the batteries which will cause them to possibly vent gases and / or corrosive chemical.

It is possible the transformer cannot supply enough power to work two chimes. The chime appears to be marked as 15 watts while the transformer is rated at about 10 watts.

A larger transformer may solve the problem.

Those small transformers often have a thermal fuse inside which can go open circuit if the transformer is overloaded.

Ah-ha. Now we're getting somewhere!

New 2 amp transformer ordered - a Byron 7781. That should hopefully do the trick right?

 

[OwainDIYer]

New 2 amp transformer ordered - a Byron 7781. That should hopefully do the trick right?

Byron amps are not necessarily the same as Friedland amps

The mains input to the transformer must also be securely clamped so the wire cannot be pulled free exposing live ends.

 

[JeremyG]

New 2 amp transformer ordered - a Byron 7781. That should hopefully do the trick right?

Byron amps are not necessarily the same as Friedland amps

The mains input to the transformer must also be securely clamped so the wire cannot be pulled free exposing live ends.

Seriously? Amps don't mean the same thing between companies ?

Is there some amp conspiracy that means anyone without huge amounts of knowledge is destined to fail at wiring doorbells?