240 volt cables under carpet

[mattysupra]

hi all.


I have a flooring forum and have been asked about the above (putting 240volt cables under carpet)


As far as we are concerned its a big NO. Not only do we stand a chance of damaging the cable while installing it will also effect carpet wear and dread to think what would happen if it got damaged by gripper and then the carpet was wet cleaned!

I guess you also have the issues of the carpet insulating the wires so heat build up also ?



ANYWAY- what are the regs on this? is it allowed or not ? what about if it was the consumer installing a extension leed and expecting the carpet fitter to fit over it? is there a different rule for the public doing it? would the carpet fitter be responsible?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

As far as we are concerned its a big NO.

You are correct.

I guess you also have the issues of the carpet insulating the wires so heat build up also ?

Depends how near the cable is to the limit of its capacity. Wear and tear would be the main concern.

ANYWAY- what are the regs on this? is it allowed or not ?

No.

what about if it was the consumer installing a extension leed and expecting the carpet fitter to fit over it?

The carpet fitter should decline.

is there a different rule for the public doing it?

No.

would the carpet fitter be responsible?

Yes, IMO.

 

[mattysupra]

thanks ban.

Is there something in writting that i could access to say its not allowed?

I could really do with a quote from the regs so my forum users can printout and show the customers. Im having a fair few coming back and saying they will loose the job if they dont fit over the wires as the other 'floorlayer' quoting said its fine!

IF we can show the customers that it is wrong to do so it will also point out that the floor layers that will install over the wires are complete cowboys.

At the moment we just look like a moaning bunch of floor layers rather than professionals that know what is right and wrong. (that's how the customer see's it when we refuse to lay over and tell them to get a electrician to install correctly)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Eric's the man for reg quotes - he has a soft copy, so he can just paste bits in.

 

[RF Lighting]

What do you reckon? I would think external influences would be the first place to look in the regs. Also 50mm rule for cables in a floor?

I'll get the book out and have a look if eric isn't about.

 

[mattysupra]

I'll get the book out and have a look if eric isn't about.

you talking to me or Ban? presume ban as i dont have a book LOL



So with you saying 50mm, regs are that cables should be 50mm below the
surface of the subfloor ?

Can i ask is there someone where online that i can download or point people to that info?

is it Illegal for another trades person (non electrician) to lay a carpet over a 240v cable then unless 50mm below the surface?

 

[RF Lighting]

Sorry yes I was talking to ban!

There wont be a specific regulation that says "do not carpet over cables"

It's more a case of finding a regulation which is breached by the situation.

There is a regulation about cable positioning below floors, I need to have a read up and see if this would also apply to your scenario.

Unfortunately the IET who write the regs make a handsome profit selling copies of the regs, so it's very unlikely you'll find them for free.

 

[mattysupra]

Sorry yes I was talking to ban!

There wont be a specific regulation that says "do not carpet over cables"

It's more a case of finding a regulation which is breached by the situation.

There is a regulation about cable positioning below floors, I need to have a read up and see if this would also apply to your scenario.

Unfortunately the IET who write the regs make a handsome profit selling copies of the regs, so it's very unlikely you'll find them for free.

im only after a quote from the regs. I have no interest in the rest of the regs as not a spark.

is it possible to get a quote from the regs?

I know we have same issue with our BS, charge a fortune and we cant post them up but we can post quotes from them.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I don't think there will be a regulation, which states that you cannot run a cable under the carpet, other than the many regulations which state where cables are to be run.

Look at it another way.
If there were no carpet, would anyone think it acceptable to just lay the cable across the floor?
Especially as you have mentioned H&S and public access.

 

[ericmark]

413.3.4 Flexible cables and cords shall be visible throughout any part of their length liable to mechanical damage.

There is nothing to stop one using cable designed to go under a carpet as found in many cars today. But clearly flex is not designed to go under a carpet. Flex is the only cable to have a fixed current rating as it should always be in free air.

All other cable the current rating varies according to how fitted. I have many times run speaker cables under a carpet also telephone but it also says:-

522.6.4 A wiring system buried in a floor shall be sufficiently protected to prevent damage caused by the intended use of the floor.
522.6.5 A cable installed under a floor or above a ceiling shall be run in such a position that it is not liable to be damaged by contact with the floor or the ceiling or their fixings. A cable passing through a joist within a floor or ceiling construction or through a ceiling support (e.g. under floorboards), shall:
(i) be at least 50 mm measured vertically from the top, or bottom as appropriate, of the joist or batten, or
(ii) incorporate an earthed metallic covering which complies with the requirements of these Regulations for a protective conductor of the circuit concerned. the cable complying with BS 5467, BS 6346. BS 6724, BS 7846, BS EN 60702-1 or BS 8436, or
(iii) be enclosed in earthed conduit complying with BS EN 61386 and satisfying the requirements of these Regulations for a protective conductor, or
(iv) be enclosed in earthed trunking or ducting complying with BS EN 50085 and satisfying the requirements of these Regulations for a protective conductor, or
(v) be mechanically protected against damage sufficient to prevent penetration of the cable by nails, screws and the like.

I have before 17th came out used this

cable but it does not comply with any of the BS numbers above so don't know of any low voltage cable that can be laid under a carpet. That does not mean there is not one made just I don't know where you would get it.

Cars are extra low voltage so although cable is laid under carpet in cars you could not use that cable for low voltage.

I am wary of saying can't be done as I am sure some where something is made for the job. I look at

and maybe you could run Ali-tube cable through one of those and it would comply?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I know we have same issue with our BS, charge a fortune.

BS 7671 is about the cheapest one they do.

 

[bernardgreen]

It was in a fire brigade's "black museum" that I saw pictures of a fire started by a damaged cable under a carpet. Family woken by neighbours who had seen the smoke / flames. No life lost but extensive smoke and water damage.

That was a flex under carpet across a door.

 

[westie101]

How about some government Fire Safety advice?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/InYourHome/FireSafety/DG_071712


3rd bullet point under cables and leads

 

[mattysupra]

thanks again for all the replies.