4 appliances on a single 45a unfused spur

[ozasco]

Hi,

Can I connect 4 appliances (dw, wm, mw, fridge), 6240w total, all with fused plugs, on a single unfused 45a spur?

Circuit is:

1. 32a MCB --> 45a spur using 6mm cable
2. Spur --> 2 different sockets
   To socket 1 using 2.5mm cable: washing machine (1650w)
   To socket 2 using 6mm cable: Single oven 2990w
3. Socket 2 --> Socket 3 using 2.5mm cable
   Microwave 1450w connects to socket 3
   Fridge 150w connects to socket 3

Reason behind the question is that my builder ripped me off, started the job, took some money and then went away with his electrician. I have already called two other ones, but they keep trying to rip me off.
The new kitchen cabinets have already been fitted, new wires already chased and walls already plastered. So I am trying to use what's already there to meet regulations without disruption and then bring a sparky just to have a look and provide an EIC certificate.

Last sparky quoted an appalling 1250 pounds just to connect things and the other one asked £500 but wanted me to take cabinets/worktops out and rip walls out etc.
I just want to avoid more frustration.

Please and thanks

PS:
I also have another 6mm cable located in the CU going to the induction hob 3700w (with its own spur) that I was thinking about connecting to the same MCB (diversity factor allows that?)

 

[SUNRAY]

We are going to need more info to offer advice.
Picture(s) or sketch of what's in place will be a big help.

 

[TimboTwo]

Where do you get 45A if it's unfused?

 

[ozasco]

I attached 2 photos
-1 overview of the current connections
-1 zooming in the 6mm circuit

You will see some cables hanging around and some wall chases. Please ignore them, they are just a result of some bad advice from one of the last electrictians that came to have a look.
The only actual circuits are the ones I marked in red and blue.

 

[flameport]

What's wrong with the socket circuit marked in blue?
Use that for the washing machine, fridge and whatever else it's already connected to.
Use the red 6mm circuit for the oven and microwave.

 

[ozasco]

Where do you get 45A if it's unfused?

From my newbie understanding, 45a is the load capacity of the faceplate. See photos attached.
I get 45a from nowhere. I get 32a max from the 32a MCB/CU, which then will go to each appliance via the connections from this spur.
The overload protection will be on each appliance fuse (and MCB), not on the spur.
Is my understanding correct?

 

[ozasco]

What's wrong with the socket circuit marked in blue?
Use that for the washing machine, fridge and whatever else it's already connected to.
Use the red 6mm circuit for the oven and microwave.

The blue circuit connects to 2 other sockets in the dining room, 2 other sockets in the living room, and 4 other sockets upstairs in the bedrooms, via a ring main type of circuit.
So, I was thinking about offloading this circuit a bit, just in case, and keeping a separate 16 MCB for it.
The other reason for me thinking about bringing the red circuit to the washing machine and fridge is because AFAIK the regs say I need easy access to disconnect the appliances, and I cannot have a spur for them otherwise I block the rest of the ring circuit.
Other option would be to fit a new double socket and pattress on the cabinet above the microwave, but it just seems easier to go with the initial solution I posted here.

 

[SUNRAY]

I attached 2 photos
-1 overview of the current connections
-1 zooming in the 6mm circuit

You will see some cables hanging around and some wall chases. Please ignore them, they are just a result of some bad advice from one of the last electrictians that came to have a look.
The only actual circuits are the ones I marked in red and blue.

Not being funny but if the blue cables exist and work, and the walls are finished I'd be tempted to leave well alone. I'd prefer to see some 'easy isolation' but I don't believe any actual requirement.
I assume you're proposing this:

Sockets 1, 2 & 3 and cables in brown including chasing the wall to the washing machine. Making joints in the low level sockets as required and blanking plates

If you really want to change things and assuming you already have 2.5mm² installed to socket 1, I'd suggest replacing the double back box with a twin and a double pole switch (5) feeding 2 & 3, and a FCU (6) feeding 1. If the 2.5mm is not in place I'd suggest installing 4 or 6mm² cable to 1 and another (green) through the cabinets to 4, and making 6 second 45A switch.

What about the socket on the right (Circled orange)?

 

[flameport]

the regs say I need easy access to disconnect the appliances

They do not.
For the once-in-5-years event that they need to be disconnected for replacement, you can switch off at the consumer unit.
Isolation is done by unplugging the appliance.

So, I was thinking about offloading this circuit a bit, just in case,

In case of what? A fridge and washing machine won't overload anything. Millions of homes have a single 32A circuit for everything.
Keep the blue sockets as they are, and just use the 32A cooker circuit for the oven and microwave, which is probably what was intended by whoever installed the cables.

 

[TimboTwo]

Just as a by-the-way, you won't get a sparky to issue an EIC for work they haven't done.

 

[SUNRAY]

They do not.
For the once-in-5-years event that they need to be disconnected for replacement, you can switch off at the consumer unit.
Isolation is done by unplugging the appliance.


In case of what? A fridge and washing machine won't overload anything. Millions of homes have a single 32A circuit for everything.
Keep the blue sockets as they are, and just use the 32A cooker circuit for the oven and microwave, which is probably what was intended by whoever installed the cables.

Our Fridge/freezer has been unplugged once since we refitted our kitchen 20-25 years ago, that was when it failed and we replaced it. Same with the washing machine and dishwasher. None of mine have an isolator and all can be unplugged without removing the appliance however it's only the DW that insn't fiddly/awkward.

 

[ozasco]

Sorry all for delaying responses to your so much appreciated feedback, but I have so many issues at the moment (e.g. my wife, 7-year daughter, and I are currently living at this messed up house), that sometimes priorities get messed up.

Not being funny but if the blue cables exist and work, and the walls are finished I'd be tempted to leave well alone. I'd prefer to see some 'easy isolation' but I don't believe any actual requirement.
I assume you're proposing this:

I was thinking slightly different, the solution below avoids fitting an additional box/socket, and would allow a single switch to control various appliances:

Forget that wall chase in yellow for a minute, because it is there because for one reason:
After I'd been left in the sh*t by the builder, the leftmost socket on the image was covered by mud, we did not realise it, and that wall chase was a tentative of bringing a cable to the back of that fridge area through the bottom/legs of the cabinets. But then we noticed a dark mark there, chiseled it a bit and voila!

Now we don't need that wall chase anymore (I think), so I will just remove the cable I bodged in, and fill the chase again unless I choose your solution and fit a box there.

If you really want to change things and assuming you already have 2.5mm² installed to socket 1

The assumption is correct, but I'd prefer to avoid replacing the dbl socket by two single.

What about the socket on the right (Circled orange)?

The socket is coming from that point in green below. It is a cable that was left from the previous kitchen and is still live. The other side of that wall is where the fuse box is located, under the stairs.

Maybe I could use this cable to feed a pattress inside the cabinet next to the WM, but it is just an idea, the disadvantage is that this extra cable will occupy space in the CU/breaker and the CU is already very messy, but the advantage is that the plug/faceplate would be more accessible.

 

[ozasco]

They do not.
For the once-in-5-years event that they need to be disconnected for replacement, you can switch off at the consumer unit.
Isolation is done by unplugging the appliance.

I hear different things from different electricians, but I think you are totally right: we rarely need to access it and it is still possible to switch off the specific breaker.
If the regs really do not require the easily accessible switch (maybe they just recommend it), then I will care much less about it.

In case of what? A fridge and washing machine won't overload anything. Millions of homes have a single 32A circuit for everything

Yes, maybe I will just use the blue circuit.
But as I mentioned, this blue circuit is the longest one in the house, and it is a radial circuit, not a ring. So if I end up turning on too many things, I can end up having some trips sometimes, I guess.
For instance, if I plug the WM (1650w), the fridge freezer (300w), a hoover, an AirFryer (1400w), a Nespresso machine (1600w), etc.
I know it would be too rare to connect all of this at the same time, so you are probably right. Besides the breaker is RCD'd, so it's less of a concern.

 

[ozasco]

Just as a by-the-way, you won't get a sparky to issue an EIC for work they haven't done.

I plan to sell my house within 2 or 3 years, and I also get concerns about the house insurance, if anything happens.
What other implication will I have for not having the EIC?
It was not my fault (9or maybe it was), I recently came to the UK, I wasn't aware of all the rules, the house is what I could pay for, and I got ripped off by the builder.
My family and I are so desperate at the moment (before this weekend we spent 2 weeks living in the house without a sink and a hob), that I do not care too much about the EIC for the moment.
But we just cannot afford to pay an electrician to disrupt the whole house again. What alternatives do I have?
Any suggestion is highly appreciated.

You guys have been much more helpful than any other tradeperson that I have ever consulted with so far.
I am so grateful!!!

 

[SUNRAY]

Is the 'yellow chase' still open?
If so:
I) Make the existing (washing machine) low level socket safe by disconnecting the cable at the double socket.
II) Replace the 'yellow' cable with 4 or 6mm² and fit socket No.1
III) Cable positions 2 & 3 likewise and connect all of them to the 'load' of the cooker switch, ie the cooker switch will isolate all 3 appliances.
IV) next you have 3 options for the fridge:
A) Fit socket A and cable with 4 or 6mm² using the easiest route and join the existing cables at the low level socket.
B) Fit socket B and cable with 4 or 6mm² using the easiest route and join the existing cables at the low level socket.
C) Fit a new low level socket at the existing position on the blue circuit.

IV A or B will result in all 4 appliances being isolated by the 'cooker switch'... personally I wouldn't recommend these as it would be too easy to turn the 'cooker' off for cleaning and forget about the fridge . Powerwise 6.25KW is fine (but very unlikely to all be at full power at the same time) and at full load leaves 1.6KW for the socket, at that point 3KW will not (should not) trip a 32A MCB.