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4 Vs 5 Terminal dual-rate meter confusion

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by d000hg, 19 Nov 2018.

  1. d000hg

    d000hg

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    I'm having a standard single-rate credit meter switched to dual-rate (not smart meter) in a rental property. The property is a 2-bed flat with no gas, so heating is all electric but heaters are regular fan heaters not storage heaters.

    I'm getting confusion from Siemens about whether I need a 4 terminal or 5. They had thought I need 5 which they have none in stock. They keep asking me about storage heaters and water immersion. I don't actually know if my hot water is immersion or not as I am not local to the property.

    What exactly is the extra terminal for, given the whole supply switches rates rather than one circuit being low-rate, etc? Can anyone explain what this all means?
     
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  3. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    With no storage heaters, you don't really want a dual rate meter, then.
     
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  4. bernardgreen

    bernardgreen

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    (1) Live In
    (2) Neutral In
    (3) Neutral Out
    (4) Live Out, permanently ON
    (5) Live Out, only ON during the lower rate period(s)

    If you have no gas then the hot water will be heated by an electric immersion heater, that would normally be supplied from terminal 5 via suitable MCB and RCD
     
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  5. d000hg

    d000hg

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    Yes, I do. It is directly recommended by the EPC inspector. It's slightly convoluted so I'd rather just figure out the answer to the question Siemens are asking me "do you need 4 or 5 terminals" :)
     
  6. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    Ok. What did he say was the reason for that?
     
  7. d000hg

    d000hg

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    Now it makes sense. So you'd wire storage heaters to 5... why are they asking about the immersion heater then? Traditionally would you only heat water at night, and use a boost on a different circuit if you ran out?

    Given my use a 4 sounds fine, maybe I just tell them I need that and hope they take my word for it given they cannot get a 5!
     
  8. d000hg

    d000hg

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    My property is a few points below the minimum band E for rental properties and there are no easy fixes left before we run into expensive changes. He said since EPC is based on energy COST not energy USE switching to an eco7 meter would swing things in my favour, a loophole of sorts.
     
  9. bernardgreen

    bernardgreen

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    Some dual rate tariffs provide a short period of the lower rate during the daym

    The tank should have two immersion heaters. One near the bottom which runs on terminal 5 to heat the whole tank and a second one near the top which is the boost and runs on terninal 4
     
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  11. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    I think that is nonsense - we'll see what others say, but -

    to help you, I would think you want a four terminal meter so that everything goes to 'cheap' rate at night then you can do your washing, ironing, heating etc. after midnight - but if you have no storage heaters it will be more expensive for you.
    Otherwise you would need separate circuits for the immersion (and storage heaters if you had them).

    You do realise that on E7 the day rate is dearer than normal, don't you?
     
  12. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds

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    What he actually said was that since EPC is based on energy COST switching to a tariff which increases the COST will be an improvement.

    I struggle to understand his thinking....
     
  13. AndyPRK

    AndyPRK

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    Well if you use 70% at night with storage heaters it would work out cheaper
     
  14. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds

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  15. OwainDIYer

    OwainDIYer

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    Second-hand storage heaters are pretty cheap if you can find them on ebay local to you. One in the lounge and hall would usually meet requirements.

    If you have single-glazed windows, plastic secondary glazing is also fairly cheap if you DIY it.
     
  16. flameport

    flameport

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    EPCs are entirely useless and only exist as an exercise in futility.
    Most people ignore them.
    You should do likewise.

    Another consideration is that the tenant living there is entitled to change the electricity supplier and tariff to whatever they want, so you doing it for them is a complete waste of time and will achieve nothing.
     
  17. AndyPRK

    AndyPRK

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    I think landlords have to care these days.
     
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