8mm control tap/ valve needed

[AstonHill]

Greeting!

I am in the process of converting my log burner into an (waste engine) oil burner
I am using 8mm copper pipe as the fuel supply and supplied from a pump. But I want some way to control the flow to turn the fuel supply down and up. I have used the typical 8mm gas taps in the past as regulator for regulating gas supply https://www.toolstation.com/mini-le...8__o650bEEjd6aPSxcAaAseKEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
and find them very fidlly indeed! it is almost as though they are desinged for on off only with no in the middle

Any surgestions on a slow control 8mm tap please

Thanks

 

[polesapart]

https://www.bes.co.uk/handwheel-fire-valve-10809/ might, with appropriate reducers, offer more granular control of flow.

Caveat; I'm not oil-qualified and have never held one of these in my hand.

 

[AstonHill]

https://www.bes.co.uk/handwheel-fire-valve-10809/

A wheel like a tap! yes those typical gate valve taps made of brass with the red painted round handel, would be better then the type of tap i first mentioned. Taps Ring any bells though?

Gate Valves | Brassware, Valves & Taps | Screwfix

Buy Gate Valves at Screwfix.com. Release or shut off the flow of liquid on pipework. Easy & quick installation. Click and collect in as little as 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

But that tap in the link states 3/8" /10mm where I am using 5/16" /8mm instead
Why is it desined to work at such high heat? A tap is for hands to turn right?

might, with appropriate reducers, offer more granular control of flow.

You mean having more then one tap in the system?

Caveat; I'm not oil-qualified and have never held one of these in my hand.

ohh please dont you start with that nonosenceical noncence! Same as getting sensored and thread locked hear for using the "gas" word (bit like David Icke being banned from YT FB and all the other BS little sites, not for saying 5G is causing the virus but for saying 5G causes flue like symptoms coz there is no covid full stop!)

 

[AstonHill]

https://www.bes.co.uk/handwheel-fire-valve-10809/

P.S It dose not state how many turns of the wheel it takes to go from closed to open valve

 

[polesapart]

Caveat meant: might be worth a shout but I don't speak here from personal experience.

S'only a tenner but might be worth a punt.

En clair : might be talking ballcocks but xxx worth a look?

 

[Exedon]

P.S It dose not state how many turns of the wheel it takes to go from closed to open valve

It won't say how many turns because it's not intended to be a control valve
It's a fuseable head valve sort of crude safety device to shut of oil supply in a fire normaly turn on clockwise.
Long since superseded by remote fire valves

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Any surgestions on a slow control 8mm tap please

Is it a drip type burner?

Rather than trying to control it with a manual valve, look at pumping it, with a peristaltic pump. Then control the pump, via a timer, on for ??seconds, off for ??seconds.

 

[AstonHill]

It won't say how many turns because it's not intended to be a control valve
It's a fuseable head valve sort of crude safety device to shut of oil supply in a fire normaly turn on clockwise.
Long since superseded by remote fire valves

We are not regulating the oil/ fuel supply inside the fire we are regulating it before it enters the stove its self, all done at room temprature
Where would i get a basic control valve from?

 

[AstonHill]

Is it a drip type burner?

I guess it will be as there will be no jet at the end of the pipe just stright from an 8mm pipe into a trey so it will be dripped in and supplied form a pump

Rather than trying to control it with a manual valve, look at pumping it, with a peristaltic pump. Then control the pump, via a timer, on for ??seconds, off for ??seconds.

its being pump from a 12v on-demand pump.
You mean control it with a solenoid wired to a timer right. I dont want the fire to go out as it would mean re lighting it again but if on for a few seconds and off for a few seconds you think this will be enough? where could I get such solenoid to fit an 8mm pipe and the timer as well please?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

its being pump from a 12v on-demand pump.
You mean control it with a solenoid wired to a timer right. I dont want the fire to go out as it would mean re lighting it again but if on for a few seconds and off for a few seconds you think this will be enough? where could I get such solenoid to fit an 8mm pipe and the timer as well please?

As said, you need a pump, designed to deliver the same amount of fuel, irrespective of the temperature of the fuel. A peristaltic pump, can do that, they are used in a/c units as condensate pumps, and run on 240v mains.

One of those could be run from a 555 timer IC, switching a relay.

Alternatively, you can get 12v solenoid pumps, each time the solenoid is fired, it delivers a metered amount of fuel. That would need two 555 timers, plus a relay, to run that pump. One to time the on time of the solenoid, one to set how fast it pumped.

A peristaltic pump, can suck the oil etc., up to the pump (self bleed), a solenoid pump cannot.

BTW - Are you aware you need to apply for a licence, to burn waste oil?

You will not find the bits you need, ready-made, you have to build, adapt, and experiment.


Rather than mess about trying to build one, have you investigated the 'diesel heaters'? My diesel car comes factory fitted with such a heater, sometimes called a 'night heater'. They run on 12v DC and now the Chinese sell a copy of them, for around £100, rated 3 to 8Kw. Diesel and 12v in one end, hot air and an exhaust out the other. I understand they can burn a mix of waste oil, and diesel. Lots of info on the web about them.

 

[AstonHill]

As said, you need a pump, designed to deliver the same amount of fuel, irrespective of the temperature of the fuel. A peristaltic pump, can do that, they are used in a/c units as condensate pumps, and run on 240v mains.

Its a bit to late now as my 12V on demand pump arrived today!

One of those could be run from a 555 timer IC, switching a relay.

Thats a time delay chip right?

Alternatively, you can get 12v solenoid pumps, each time the solenoid is fired, it delivers a metered amount of fuel. That would need two 555 timers, plus a relay, to run that pump. One to time the on time of the solenoid, one to set how fast it pumped.

A peristaltic pump, can suck the oil etc., up to the pump (self bleed), a solenoid pump cannot.

BTW - Are you aware you need to apply for a licence, to burn waste oil?

No i am not and I dont care either! this is my houes and I will do as I please hear and if I want to burn house coal in a smokeless zone then my choise

You will not find the bits you need, ready-made, you have to build, adapt, and experiment.

Might be a bit late though if i have the wrong pump for what you are implying

Rather than mess about trying to build one, have you investigated the 'diesel heaters'? My diesel car comes factory fitted with such a heater, sometimes called a 'night heater'. They run on 12v DC and now the Chinese sell a copy of them, for around £100, rated 3 to 8Kw. Diesel and 12v in one end, hot air and an exhaust out the other.

Unlike the mega corp car manufatures stitching you up on it will only fit that one car and its ECU only, rummer has it that cheep junk from ebay made in China are simple electronics plug and play where you like.

But those things need a fan which needs electric, plus derv/ heating oil costs where waste engine oil is free!

Have you considered running your derv hearer on waste oils?

I understand they can burn a mix of waste oil, and diesel. Lots of info on the web about them.

I have not heared this. but lots of rubbish on the net to

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

But those things need a fan which needs electric, plus derv/ heating oil costs where waste engine oil is free!

Have you considered running your derv hearer on waste oils?

Nope, it uses so little, it is not worth the effort of (re)adding a separate fuel tank, for it. My original partner, needed the instant heat it could provide, so at one time I ran it from a separate tank, but filled with red diesel.

The Chinese ones need 12v at around 1amp continuous, maybe 3amp to start. They are well regarded, I was thinking to get one myself, and run it on a mix of waste oil and diesel, as a cheaper source of heat, than mains gas.

A simple 12v rotary pump will not help, the oil supply needs to be metered - as in the same regular amount pumped in to burn, irrespective of the temperature, and density of the oil. Only a peristaltic, or solenoid impulse types of pumps can do that.

Unmetered, the flame will simply run wild, due to variations in density of the oil.

 

[AstonHill]

I went to the tollstation today and bough my self the above fire vale seen hear

Fire Valve

97°C actuation temperature, fusible head.

www.toolstation.com

It is 10mm bore and requires a reducer to get it to 8mm. It is 2 1/2 turns on the wheel to go from closed to open valve

I also bough another gate vale

Made4Trade Gate Valve

• WRAS Approved

www.toolstation.com

This one is 3 1/2 turns on the wheel from closed to open valve, but its 15mm bore and it looks like this is the smallest one they do. It will need reducing more then the other and I am wondering if at 3 1/2 turns compared to 2 1/2 turns I will see the difference in the slow turn I need, given the fact that that valve is a greater bore

 

[AstonHill]

While I was at the ToolStation I decided to get myself a copper pipe reducer (since fire valve is for 10mm copper pipe and i am using 8mm)

Made4Trade End Feed Fitting Reducer

End feed capillary fitting is part of the Made4trade range and manufactured to BS EN 1254-1. This fitting joints copper tube manufactured to BS EN 1057 using solder.It is suitable for above ground hot and cold domestic or potable water services, central heating systems, low-pressure steam...

www.toolstation.com

But the 10mm side dose not look long enough to go right though the valve and even though the add states "This fitting joints copper tube manufactured to BS EN 1057 using solder." I see no evedance of any solder inside the fitting

 

[Exedon]

While I was at the ToolStation I decided to get myself a copper pipe reducer (since fire valve is for 10mm copper pipe and i am using 8mm)

Made4Trade End Feed Fitting Reducer

End feed capillary fitting is part of the Made4trade range and manufactured to BS EN 1254-1. This fitting joints copper tube manufactured to BS EN 1057 using solder.It is suitable for above ground hot and cold domestic or potable water services, central heating systems, low-pressure steam...

www.toolstation.com

But the 10mm side dose not look long enough to go right though the valve and even though the add states "This fitting joints copper tube manufactured to BS EN 1057 using solder." I see no evedance of any solder inside the fitting

That's because as it clearly say 'end feed fitting'
Don't think it will bother you but you never ever use soldered fittings on oil lines
Always mechanical joint preferably flared.