A head-on fatal collision between two trains in mid Wales could have been avoided, an investigation has found.

[ericmark]

The article says using the manual sander would have prevented the crash the automatic sander it seems was not working, but since the driver did not know it was not working, to have added more sand when he thought sand was already being put on the rails, just seems wrong.

the author of the report adding the driver was not made aware that the automatic system had not sprayed sand on the train's wheels

so why would he consider doubling up on the sanding, as that could make it worse not better.

It seems to be we don't want the blame the trains, so we will blame the driver instead.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

What a rubbish system. If someone pulls out in front of my car, I press the brake pedal. I don't then need to press a button to activate the ABS system.

I agree, it sounds like blame-shifting.

They should be concentrating on why the trains ended up on a crash course, not how the driver braked once the situation had already occurred. Shouldn't signalling systems prevent two trains from being on the same stretch of track? As he didn't stop within the passing loop then shouldn't that stop the approaching train?

 

[ericmark]

We used to have a token system, developed due to a head on crash on the same track, the historic 1921 Abermule disaster started the use of tokens, but today they use computers instead it seems.

On the Welshpool to Llanfair track when there are two trains which is not very common, one can be sitting for 15 minutes waiting for the other train to arrive, track is only 8 miles, and it takes 50 minutes, so you can see why faster methods were looked for, but to rely on sand to stop seems wrong, using it to get the train moving yes, but to rely on sanders to work without some testing before the train starts off seems wrong.

And the song says, the runaway train went down the track, and she blew, so why was there no horn blaring away before the crash? At least the passengers could have sat down and been ready for it. Not just first coach.

 

[morqthana]

It seems to be we don't want the blame the trains, so we will blame the driver instead.

That works for Airbus.

 

[ellal]

That works for Airbus.

Not so for Tesla so far...

Until of course we get AI judges

 

[IT Minion]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6a3270a900ff27f06e3ef93c/R082026_260618_Talerddig.pdf

On the Welshpool to Llanfair track when there are two trains which is not very common, one can be sitting for 15 minutes waiting for the other train to arrive, track is only 8 miles, and it takes 50 minutes, so you can see why faster methods were looked for, but to rely on sand to stop seems wrong, using it to get the train moving yes, but to rely on sanders to work without some testing before the train starts off seems wrong.

Sand units are routinely used apparently, not just for emergency use but whenever the rails are slippery. They do test the sanders, but the daily test mechanism only checked the dispenser unit, there was an intermittent fault that stopped the command to the dispenser being sent which was not picked up in the majority test days/weeks earlier.

And the song says, the runaway train went down the track, and she blew, so why was there no horn blaring away before the crash?

Everyone involved expected it to all work out fine until too close to the accident, then they tried to get out of their cabs to avoid being in the crumple zone so couldn't use the intercom.

 

[bernardgreen]

I guess the accountants might have saved the cost of installing trap points

Three track features you’ve never heard of - Network Rail

We sometimes add extra features to a standard piece of track to keep trains – and you – as safe as possible. Find out more.

www.networkrail.co.uk

 

[IT Minion]

The article says using the manual sander would have prevented the crash the automatic sander it seems was not working, but since the driver did not know it was not working, to have added more sand when he thought sand was already being put on the rails, just seems wrong. so why would he consider doubling up on the sanding, as that could make it worse not better.

It seems to be we don't want the blame the trains, so we will blame the driver instead.

The rule book says that if your train is not slowing quickly enough then you should use the emergency sander in addition to the normal braking system (which includes the automatic sander). The emergency sander dumps 2-3 times as much grit down.


According to the report the driver wasn't aware of this and something like half the other drivers surveyed after the report weren't sure when or if they should use the emergency sander.

 

[IT Minion]

I guess the accountants might have saved the cost of installing trap points

Three track features you’ve never heard of - Network Rail

We sometimes add extra features to a standard piece of track to keep trains – and you – as safe as possible. Find out more.

www.networkrail.co.uk

Trap points are only allowed for very specific areas and that part of the route didn't qualify, and reading the report the driver and signaler probably wouldn't have used them.

The driver thought he'd come to a stop after his stop signal but before the other train and he was doing so, at least until he hit even worse conditions and what little grip he had disappeared. He basically went from the rail equivalent of wet roads to black ice.

.there used to be a trap point on the east end of the loop, but it was removed in the 80s as it was not a situation that British rail would have allowed it's use.

 

[ellal]

I guess the accountants might have saved the cost of installing trap points

Similar to the distances between 'emergency areas' on so called 'smart motorways' being greater than recommended...

But hey, the bean counters don't care about lives - they just care about the money!

 

[bernardgreen]

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

It's a distraction to blame the driver or even the braking system. If the train is on the single-line track that another is approaching on then the signalling system should tell them to stop. There will always be times when the brakes don't work, the system should be designed to deal with this situation.

This could have all been sorted with a few sensors and signals.

 

[motorbiking]

Completely confused here. The train has a button to put sand on the rail to increase stopping power in an emergency?

Surely the brake system should “know” that the brakes are being applied with maximum force and automaticity do this if the rate of braking is not optimal.

 

[bernardgreen]

then the signalling system should tell them to stop

It did. The problem was the train was sliding on the track and unable to stop before it reached the end of the passing loop.

With a trap point at the end of the loop the train would have been diverted away from the approaching train.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Perhaps some longer waiting distances then in case it happens again, I'm sure they could come up with a more constructive answer than telling the drivers to lob sand out of the window or whatever.